Re: [Air-l] Trolls, Tribes, and flamewars
What's your intent, Cornwell? I've identified plenty of trollish behavior in the past; it is incredibly common, not unusual at all. I do tend to have a bit of a sharp edge, and admit that readily. I can't say as I believe your intentions to be honorable or straightforward at all. Are you trying to provoke some particular reaction? Perhaps trying to threaten me, in some sad way? I asked you once before not to contact me off-list; please cease and desist. I don't have anything to talk with you about that belongs off-list. [Given that air-l is the only place I've run across you, and the proper venue for this, I'm redirecting this traffic there now.] --elijah On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Dr. W. Reid Cornwell wrote:
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:49:23 -0600 From: Dr. W. Reid Cornwell <wrc@tcfir.org> To: elw@stderr.org Subject: Trolls, Tribes, and flamewars
Elijah,
I have been studying the behavior of internet users. I have observed that you have frequently labeled people as trolls.
I intend to publish some of your publicly available comments directed at myself and others would you care to comment for the record?
Reid
________________________________
Dr. W. Reid Cornwell The Center For Internet Research P.O. Box 6369 Breckenridge, CO
720.212.0719 (phone) 970.485.5109 (mobile) wrc@tcfir.org http://tcfir.org
Et Al, Please note this thread was address to Elijah (private) alone. He chose to forward it to the Listserv. This is a egregious violation of the ethical policy of AOIR. "will not forward personal email to AIR-l without the author's permission." Does this rule apply to everyone? I'm trying to learn what is acceptable not start a war. Sam elw@stderr.org wrote: What's your intent, Cornwell? I've identified plenty of trollish behavior in the past; it is incredibly common, not unusual at all. I do tend to have a bit of a sharp edge, and admit that readily. I can't say as I believe your intentions to be honorable or straightforward at all. Are you trying to provoke some particular reaction? Perhaps trying to threaten me, in some sad way? I asked you once before not to contact me off-list; please cease and desist. I don't have anything to talk with you about that belongs off-list. [Given that air-l is the only place I've run across you, and the proper venue for this, I'm redirecting this traffic there now.] --elijah On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Dr. W. Reid Cornwell wrote:
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:49:23 -0600 From: Dr. W. Reid Cornwell To: elw@stderr.org Subject: Trolls, Tribes, and flamewars
Elijah,
I have been studying the behavior of internet users. I have observed that you have frequently labeled people as trolls.
I intend to publish some of your publicly available comments directed at myself and others would you care to comment for the record?
Reid
________________________________
Dr. W. Reid Cornwell The Center For Internet Research P.O. Box 6369 Breckenridge, CO
720.212.0719 (phone) 970.485.5109 (mobile) wrc@tcfir.org http://tcfir.org
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
I acknowledge my slightly discourteous behavior. It was done very intentionally, with a clear purpose in mind. I was concerned - rightly so, I think - that Cornwell might be (is?) making similar aggressive overtures to other people on the list. I have asked on several occasions that he not contact me, not interact with me, and to just plain leave me alone. Matt has informed me that WRC is supposedly no longer on the list. For a number of reasons, I strongly believe that Sam Tilden is in fact a pseudonym for Dr. W. Reid Cornwell, our list's troll du jour. --elijah
From: Sam Tilden <tildensam@yahoo.com>
Please note this thread was address to Elijah (private) alone. He chose to forward it to the Listserv. This is a egregious violation of the ethical policy of AOIR.
"will not forward personal email to AIR-l without the author's permission."
Does this rule apply to everyone? I'm trying to learn what is acceptable not start a war.
Sam
elw@stderr.org wrote:
What's your intent, Cornwell? I've identified plenty of trollish behavior in the past; it is incredibly common, not unusual at all. I do tend to have a bit of a sharp edge, and admit that readily.
I can't say as I believe your intentions to be honorable or straightforward at all. Are you trying to provoke some particular reaction? Perhaps trying to threaten me, in some sad way?
I asked you once before not to contact me off-list; please cease and desist. I don't have anything to talk with you about that belongs off-list.
[Given that air-l is the only place I've run across you, and the proper venue for this, I'm redirecting this traffic there now.]
--elijah
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Dr. W. Reid Cornwell wrote:
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:49:23 -0600 From: Dr. W. Reid Cornwell To: elw@stderr.org Subject: Trolls, Tribes, and flamewars
Elijah,
I have been studying the behavior of internet users. I have observed that you have frequently labeled people as trolls.
I intend to publish some of your publicly available comments directed at myself and others would you care to comment for the record?
Reid
________________________________
Dr. W. Reid Cornwell The Center For Internet Research P.O. Box 6369 Breckenridge, CO
720.212.0719 (phone) 970.485.5109 (mobile) wrc@tcfir.org http://tcfir.org
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Does anyone think it strange that elijah is the only person in the history of this list that has accused 3 different people of being trolls. That he works with the other person who has labeled 2 different people of being trolls. And she has one of the few published articles from this membership that deals with trolls. Now he wants to label another person who has just analyzed the data within this group on trolls as one of the people he helped to drive from the list. He does this to cover the violation of the rules. That's a load of coincidences don't you think. By the way I have interviewed Dr. Cornwell and he is not me. Sam Sam elw@stderr.org wrote: I acknowledge my slightly discourteous behavior. It was done very intentionally, with a clear purpose in mind. I was concerned - rightly so, I think - that Cornwell might be (is?) making similar aggressive overtures to other people on the list. I have asked on several occasions that he not contact me, not interact with me, and to just plain leave me alone. Matt has informed me that WRC is supposedly no longer on the list. For a number of reasons, I strongly believe that Sam Tilden is in fact a pseudonym for Dr. W. Reid Cornwell, our list's troll du jour. --elijah
From: Sam Tilden
Please note this thread was address to Elijah (private) alone. He chose to forward it to the Listserv. This is a egregious violation of the ethical policy of AOIR.
"will not forward personal email to AIR-l without the author's permission."
Does this rule apply to everyone? I'm trying to learn what is acceptable not start a war.
Sam
elw@stderr.org wrote:
What's your intent, Cornwell? I've identified plenty of trollish behavior in the past; it is incredibly common, not unusual at all. I do tend to have a bit of a sharp edge, and admit that readily.
I can't say as I believe your intentions to be honorable or straightforward at all. Are you trying to provoke some particular reaction? Perhaps trying to threaten me, in some sad way?
I asked you once before not to contact me off-list; please cease and desist. I don't have anything to talk with you about that belongs off-list.
[Given that air-l is the only place I've run across you, and the proper venue for this, I'm redirecting this traffic there now.]
--elijah
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Dr. W. Reid Cornwell wrote:
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:49:23 -0600 From: Dr. W. Reid Cornwell To: elw@stderr.org Subject: Trolls, Tribes, and flamewars
Elijah,
I have been studying the behavior of internet users. I have observed that you have frequently labeled people as trolls.
I intend to publish some of your publicly available comments directed at myself and others would you care to comment for the record?
Reid
________________________________
Dr. W. Reid Cornwell The Center For Internet Research P.O. Box 6369 Breckenridge, CO
720.212.0719 (phone) 970.485.5109 (mobile) wrc@tcfir.org http://tcfir.org
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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On Fri, October 13, 2006 00:20, Sam Tilden wrote:
Does anyone think it strange that elijah is the only person in the history of this list that has accused 3 different people of being trolls.
That's all as may be, Sam Tilden. The record is clear on this one: I can't recall a single post of yours that has contributed anything substantive to the conversations on this list. Instead, you seem, like Reid, to have nothing more to offer than a tiresomely automatic objection to the interactions of others -- in short (like all trolls), you seem to be spoiling for a fight. Do you in fact have anything of value to impart, beyond your confusion over the difference between "phenomena" and "phenomenon"? Whether or not you are Dr. Cornwell, you are his twin in spirit. And I'm tired of your empty hectoring. My vote to Elijah on this one. Bob -- Bob Rehak Visiting Assistant Professor Film and Media Studies Swarthmore College Associate Editor Animation: An Interdisciplinary Journal
Dear all As was previously noted, this list is not the place to exchange ideas and suggestions that might be better conducted in one-to-one correspondence; nor is it the place to fwd emails sent privately. Most of all, while research INTO trolling is legitimate internet research, and can be discussed here (while noting that we don't want to become fixed on only one thing), we should not use the list for: a) too much reflection on what is happening on the list (especially criticisms of others' posts to the list) b) creating a research 'object' that is then being studied. I will reiterate that the list is a service provided by the Association on behalf of members and others. This service is not 'public'. It is private and based on subscription to the list permitted by AoIR. AoIR at all times reserves the right to refuse subscription to this service and the decision of the Association in this respect is final. We very very much do not wish to use this right. Matt Dr Matthew Allen Associate Professor Internet Studies Curtin University of Technology, CRICOS 00301J Australia m.allen@curtin.edu.au http://smi.curtin.edu.au/netstudies/allen.htm <https://email.curtin.edu.au/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://smi.curtin.edu.au/netstudies/allen.htm> +61 8 92663511 (v) +61 8 9266 3166 (f) President, Association of Internet Researchers http://www.aoir.org <https://email.curtin.edu.au/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.aoir.org/>
Matthew and others, Dr. Cornwell cannot defend himself he was removed from the list by you. I have researched the list and have interviewd him and while his comments may be controversial he is certainly not what an who he has been reduced him to. Everyone is all too willing to villify him and to what end. He and I disagree on several things but the facts speak of a problem within the list and particularly several members. The question I asked is valid. Do the rules only apply to people you like and with whom you agree. Rehak's comments are as provocative as Elijah's. Neither one have been held accountable for their actions. One of the things I found in the literature is that Trools often call other people trolls to start the fight. On another note the front door to the archives is wide open for the world to see. While participation in the discussion is closed the results are clearly public and subject to a fair use policy. I started this project to chat with and understand why people become trolls. I have come to understand they are manufactured in most cases by the wolf pack rejecting them. This is certainly true of Dr. Cornwell and Lachlan Brown. Were this the only two people Elijah has accused you could almost dismiss it. But ask Dr. Koenig how he feels being accused. This is supposed to be a scholarly organization not a gang. I suppose you will remove me now. I don't know if I even like Dr. Cornwell but, I dislike playground bullies even more. Sam Matthew Allen <M.Allen@exchange.curtin.edu.au> wrote: Dear all As was previously noted, this list is not the place to exchange ideas and suggestions that might be better conducted in one-to-one correspondence; nor is it the place to fwd emails sent privately. Most of all, while research INTO trolling is legitimate internet research, and can be discussed here (while noting that we don't want to become fixed on only one thing), we should not use the list for: a) too much reflection on what is happening on the list (especially criticisms of others' posts to the list) b) creating a research 'object' that is then being studied. I will reiterate that the list is a service provided by the Association on behalf of members and others. This service is not 'public'. It is private and based on subscription to the list permitted by AoIR. AoIR at all times reserves the right to refuse subscription to this service and the decision of the Association in this respect is final. We very very much do not wish to use this right. Matt Dr Matthew Allen Associate Professor Internet Studies Curtin University of Technology, CRICOS 00301J Australia m.allen@curtin.edu.au http://smi.curtin.edu.au/netstudies/allen.htm +61 8 92663511 (v) +61 8 9266 3166 (f) President, Association of Internet Researchers http://www.aoir.org _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
Like the majority of the list, I've been lurking on this thread. I feel the need to make a few comments: 1) Trolls are a legitimate topic for AOIR discussion. 2) My understanding of a Troll posting is that it originates from a (usually irregular) poster that is off-topic and distracting to the list. I don't think that has been occurring. 3) I hope that any IRB or peer reviewed journal would not allow the use of results from unannounced trolling by a researcher in any published paper. 4) I very much agree that there are many topics of more interest to members of this list than some of the recent discussions. Charlie Balch Professor of CIS Arizona Western College http://charlie.balch.ong -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Sam Tilden Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 11:01 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] A reminder Matthew and others, Dr. Cornwell cannot defend himself he was removed from the list by you. I have researched the list and have interviewd him and while his comments may be controversial he is certainly not what an who he has been reduced him to. Everyone is all too willing to villify him and to what end. He and I disagree on several things but the facts speak of a problem within the list and particularly several members. The question I asked is valid. Do the rules only apply to people you like and with whom you agree. Rehak's comments are as provocative as Elijah's. Neither one have been held accountable for their actions. One of the things I found in the literature is that Trools often call other people trolls to start the fight. On another note the front door to the archives is wide open for the world to see. While participation in the discussion is closed the results are clearly public and subject to a fair use policy. I started this project to chat with and understand why people become trolls. I have come to understand they are manufactured in most cases by the wolf pack rejecting them. This is certainly true of Dr. Cornwell and Lachlan Brown. Were this the only two people Elijah has accused you could almost dismiss it. But ask Dr. Koenig how he feels being accused. This is supposed to be a scholarly organization not a gang. I suppose you will remove me now. I don't know if I even like Dr. Cornwell but, I dislike playground bullies even more. Sam Matthew Allen <M.Allen@exchange.curtin.edu.au> wrote: Dear all As was previously noted, this list is not the place to exchange ideas and suggestions that might be better conducted in one-to-one correspondence; nor is it the place to fwd emails sent privately. Most of all, while research INTO trolling is legitimate internet research, and can be discussed here (while noting that we don't want to become fixed on only one thing), we should not use the list for: a) too much reflection on what is happening on the list (especially criticisms of others' posts to the list) b) creating a research 'object' that is then being studied. I will reiterate that the list is a service provided by the Association on behalf of members and others. This service is not 'public'. It is private and based on subscription to the list permitted by AoIR. AoIR at all times reserves the right to refuse subscription to this service and the decision of the Association in this respect is final. We very very much do not wish to use this right. Matt Dr Matthew Allen Associate Professor Internet Studies Curtin University of Technology, CRICOS 00301J Australia m.allen@curtin.edu.au http://smi.curtin.edu.au/netstudies/allen.htm +61 8 92663511 (v) +61 8 9266 3166 (f) President, Association of Internet Researchers http://www.aoir.org _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
participants (5)
-
Bob Rehak -
Charlie Balch -
elw＠stderr.org -
Matthew Allen -
Sam Tilden