ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown We are following the current events in Egypt with concern as it appears that all incoming and outgoing Internet traffic has been disrupted. The Internet Society believes that the Internet is a global medium that fundamentally supports opportunity, empowerment, knowledge, growth, and freedom and that these values should never be taken away from individuals. The Internet Society considers this recent action by the Egyptian government to block Internet traffic to be an inappropriate response to a political crisis. It is a very serious decision for a government to block all Internet access in its country, and a serious intrusion into its citizens’ basic rights to communicate. If the blockage continues, it will have a very detrimental impact on Egypt’s economy and society. Ultimately, the Egyptian people and nation are the ones that will suffer, while the rest of the world will be worse off with the loss of Egyptian voices on the net. However we are most concerned about the safety and security of the Egyptian people. Alongside the rest of the world, we share the hope for a positive and lasting solution to the problems that have risen to the surface there. In the longer term, we are sure that the world will learn a lesson from this very unfortunate example, and come to understand that cutting off a nation’s access to the Internet only serves to fuel dissent and does not address the underlying causes of dissatisfaction. http://isoc.org/wp/newsletter/?p=3091
Nice wishes from the west of the world! But… One subtle thing the world can learn from this is that democracy is about confronting, confronting all those incurable diseases with whatever you have in your artillery. In all western democracies, the present practice allows few influential lobbyists to make all the decisions of the state, whereas the rest of the people are just "consumers". Even if participating personally in political affairs is not possible when population is big, the present practice still deserves some big yell! /Sari On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org>wrote:
The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
We are following the current events in Egypt with concern as it appears that all incoming and outgoing Internet traffic has been disrupted. The Internet Society believes that the Internet is a global medium that fundamentally supports opportunity, empowerment, knowledge, growth, and freedom and that these values should never be taken away from individuals.
The Internet Society considers this recent action by the Egyptian government to block Internet traffic to be an inappropriate response to a political crisis. It is a very serious decision for a government to block all Internet access in its country, and a serious intrusion into its citizens’ basic rights to communicate. If the blockage continues, it will have a very detrimental impact on Egypt’s economy and society. Ultimately, the Egyptian people and nation are the ones that will suffer, while the rest of the world will be worse off with the loss of Egyptian voices on the net.
However we are most concerned about the safety and security of the Egyptian people. Alongside the rest of the world, we share the hope for a positive and lasting solution to the problems that have risen to the surface there.
In the longer term, we are sure that the world will learn a lesson from this very unfortunate example, and come to understand that cutting off a nation’s access to the Internet only serves to fuel dissent and does not address the underlying causes of dissatisfaction.
http://isoc.org/wp/newsletter/?p=3091 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Dear AoIR scholars, I have been watching the contribution of social media to the street protests in Tunisia, Egypt, and other parts of the Middle East. My question: What sort of theories would best explain social media's role in the contagion-like spread of these popular movements? Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated. Thanks, Aziz On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Sari <angyjoe@gmail.com> wrote:
Nice wishes from the west of the world! But…
One subtle thing the world can learn from this is that democracy is about confronting, confronting all those incurable diseases with whatever you have in your artillery. In all western democracies, the present practice allows few influential lobbyists to make all the decisions of the state, whereas the rest of the people are just "consumers". Even if participating personally in political affairs is not possible when population is big, the present practice still deserves some big yell!
/Sari
On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org
wrote:
The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
We are following the current events in Egypt with concern as it appears that all incoming and outgoing Internet traffic has been disrupted. The Internet Society believes that the Internet is a global medium that fundamentally supports opportunity, empowerment, knowledge, growth, and freedom and that these values should never be taken away from individuals.
The Internet Society considers this recent action by the Egyptian government to block Internet traffic to be an inappropriate response to a political crisis. It is a very serious decision for a government to block all Internet access in its country, and a serious intrusion into its citizens’ basic rights to communicate. If the blockage continues, it will have a very detrimental impact on Egypt’s economy and society. Ultimately, the Egyptian people and nation are the ones that will suffer, while the rest of the world will be worse off with the loss of Egyptian voices on the net.
However we are most concerned about the safety and security of the Egyptian people. Alongside the rest of the world, we share the hope for a positive and lasting solution to the problems that have risen to the surface there.
In the longer term, we are sure that the world will learn a lesson from this very unfortunate example, and come to understand that cutting off a nation’s access to the Internet only serves to fuel dissent and does not address the underlying causes of dissatisfaction.
http://isoc.org/wp/newsletter/?p=3091 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aziz Douai, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Faculty of Social Science and Humanities University of Ontario Institute of Technology 55 Bond Street East Oshawa, ON L1G 0A5 Tel: 905.721.8668, ext. 3790 Fax: 905.721.3372 E-mail: aziz.douai@uoit.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A popular government without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy, or perhaps both." James Madison, 1822 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world.. In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings. IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this. Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us? My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary. I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine. -- rick On Jan 31, 2011, at 09:35 , Aziz Douai wrote:
Dear AoIR scholars,
I have been watching the contribution of social media to the street protests in Tunisia, Egypt, and other parts of the Middle East.
My question: What sort of theories would best explain social media's role in the contagion-like spread of these popular movements?
Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Aziz
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Sari <angyjoe@gmail.com> wrote:
Nice wishes from the west of the world! But…
One subtle thing the world can learn from this is that democracy is about confronting, confronting all those incurable diseases with whatever you have in your artillery. In all western democracies, the present practice allows few influential lobbyists to make all the decisions of the state, whereas the rest of the people are just "consumers". Even if participating personally in political affairs is not possible when population is big, the present practice still deserves some big yell!
/Sari
On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org
wrote:
The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
We are following the current events in Egypt with concern as it appears that all incoming and outgoing Internet traffic has been disrupted. The Internet Society believes that the Internet is a global medium that fundamentally supports opportunity, empowerment, knowledge, growth, and freedom and that these values should never be taken away from individuals.
The Internet Society considers this recent action by the Egyptian government to block Internet traffic to be an inappropriate response to a political crisis. It is a very serious decision for a government to block all Internet access in its country, and a serious intrusion into its citizens’ basic rights to communicate. If the blockage continues, it will have a very detrimental impact on Egypt’s economy and society. Ultimately, the Egyptian people and nation are the ones that will suffer, while the rest of the world will be worse off with the loss of Egyptian voices on the net.
However we are most concerned about the safety and security of the Egyptian people. Alongside the rest of the world, we share the hope for a positive and lasting solution to the problems that have risen to the surface there.
In the longer term, we are sure that the world will learn a lesson from this very unfortunate example, and come to understand that cutting off a nation’s access to the Internet only serves to fuel dissent and does not address the underlying causes of dissatisfaction.
http://isoc.org/wp/newsletter/?p=3091 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aziz Douai, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Faculty of Social Science and Humanities University of Ontario Institute of Technology 55 Bond Street East Oshawa, ON L1G 0A5
Tel: 905.721.8668, ext. 3790 Fax: 905.721.3372 E-mail: aziz.douai@uoit.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A popular government without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy, or perhaps both." James Madison, 1822
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org> wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this. Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
On Jan 31, 2011, at 09:35 , Aziz Douai wrote:
Dear AoIR scholars,
I have been watching the contribution of social media to the street protests in Tunisia, Egypt, and other parts of the Middle East.
My question: What sort of theories would best explain social media's role in the contagion-like spread of these popular movements?
Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Aziz
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Sari <angyjoe@gmail.com> wrote:
Nice wishes from the west of the world! But…
One subtle thing the world can learn from this is that democracy is about confronting, confronting all those incurable diseases with whatever you have in your artillery. In all western democracies, the present practice allows few influential lobbyists to make all the decisions of the state, whereas the rest of the people are just "consumers". Even if participating personally in political affairs is not possible when population is big, the present practice still deserves some big yell!
/Sari
On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org
wrote:
The Internet Society on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
We are following the current events in Egypt with concern as it appears that all incoming and outgoing Internet traffic has been disrupted. The Internet Society believes that the Internet is a global medium that fundamentally supports opportunity, empowerment, knowledge, growth, and freedom and that these values should never be taken away from individuals.
The Internet Society considers this recent action by the Egyptian government to block Internet traffic to be an inappropriate response to a political crisis. It is a very serious decision for a government to block all Internet access in its country, and a serious intrusion into its citizens’ basic rights to communicate. If the blockage continues, it will have a very detrimental impact on Egypt’s economy and society. Ultimately, the Egyptian people and nation are the ones that will suffer, while the rest of the world will be worse off with the loss of Egyptian voices on the net.
However we are most concerned about the safety and security of the Egyptian people. Alongside the rest of the world, we share the hope for a positive and lasting solution to the problems that have risen to the surface there.
In the longer term, we are sure that the world will learn a lesson from this very unfortunate example, and come to understand that cutting off a nation’s access to the Internet only serves to fuel dissent and does not address the underlying causes of dissatisfaction.
http://isoc.org/wp/newsletter/?p=3091 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aziz Douai, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Faculty of Social Science and Humanities University of Ontario Institute of Technology 55 Bond Street East Oshawa, ON L1G 0A5
Tel: 905.721.8668, ext. 3790 Fax: 905.721.3372 E-mail: aziz.douai@uoit.ca --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A popular government without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy, or perhaps both." James Madison, 1822
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- jeremy hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture Virginia Tech www.tmttlt.com () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments http://www.stswiki.org/ sts wiki http://transdisciplinarystudies.tmttlt.com/ Transdisciplinary Studies:the book series I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. -Pablo Picasso
I sit somewhere in the middle: its true that on-the-ground activism dominates but if Facebook etc had no impact then why would the authorities shut the Net down along phones? Journalist accounts out that point out that everyone wants to "friend" them so in those countries people are getting some info through those channels. I reckon this is having more impact than "the role of Twitter in Iran" last year which was indeed largely a projection from outside though my evidence is anecdotal at best. cheers Mathieu ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremy hunsinger <jeremy@tmttlt.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:06 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org> wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the
US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in
large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this.
Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of
offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more
theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
We have a paper on Public Diplomacy 2.0 that has some relevance to this discussion - it is based on a case study around President Obama's Cairo speech. See: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1734850 Also, we have a brief discussion of the role of social networking in the aftermath of the Iranian elections in a report for UNESCO at: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1654464 Obviously, this report does not cover Egypt's recent actions, but surely it is critical that we develop a clear understanding of who did what and when. William Dutton, Director Professor of Internet Studies Oxford Internet Institute 1 St Giles', Oxford OX1 3JS UK e-mail: william.dutton at oii.ox.ac.uk Web: http://www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/?id=1 Phone: +44 (0)1865 287 212 Cell: +44 (0)7768 823906
I haven't done much investigation into this area, but my hunch is, as others have mentioned, that the US (and to some extent European) media has overblown the use of Social Media has played in organizing protests in Egypt and Iran. I do think that, especially in Iran, Social Media played an important role in disseminate information about what was happening to people outside of Iran. I think that may be one of a reasons authorities in Egypt shut the Net and cell phones down -- not necessarily or only because of the role it could have in organizing protests. Edward On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil@anu.edu.au> wrote:
I sit somewhere in the middle: its true that on-the-ground activism dominates but if Facebook etc had no impact then why would the authorities shut the Net down along phones? Journalist accounts out that point out that everyone wants to "friend" them so in those countries people are getting some info through those channels. I reckon this is having more impact than "the role of Twitter in Iran" last year which was indeed largely a projection from outside though my evidence is anecdotal at best. cheers Mathieu
----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremy hunsinger <jeremy@tmttlt.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:06 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org> wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the
US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in
large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this.
Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of
offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more
theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
I wonder why Western media have overemphaiszed SM's role. What good does that do them? Does it simply make the story more accessible for its viewers, give us something in common? Obviously, it also fits nicely into a story of emancipation through media/technology - which would be favorable for other media. Or is this a subtle way of suggesting that the West and its emancipatory technologies are somehow responsible for what is happening? Best, Johanna On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Edward M. Corrado <ecorrado@ecorrado.us>wrote:
I haven't done much investigation into this area, but my hunch is, as others have mentioned, that the US (and to some extent European) media has overblown the use of Social Media has played in organizing protests in Egypt and Iran. I do think that, especially in Iran, Social Media played an important role in disseminate information about what was happening to people outside of Iran. I think that may be one of a reasons authorities in Egypt shut the Net and cell phones down -- not necessarily or only because of the role it could have in organizing protests.
Edward
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil@anu.edu.au> wrote:
I sit somewhere in the middle: its true that on-the-ground activism dominates but if Facebook etc had no impact then why would the authorities shut the Net down along phones? Journalist accounts out that point out that everyone wants to "friend" them so in those countries people are getting some info through those channels. I reckon this is having more impact than "the role of Twitter in Iran" last year which was indeed largely a projection from outside though my evidence is anecdotal at best. cheers Mathieu
----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremy hunsinger <jeremy@tmttlt.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:06 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org> wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the
US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in
large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this.
Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of
offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more
theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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On Jan 31, 2011, at 11:43 , joana ro wrote:
I wonder why Western media have overemphaiszed SM's role. What good does that do them?
The cynical-of-US-media me says it's a marketing gimmick that, as Jo says, can create a sense of communal participation and involvement in the coverage --- but also allows the media to solicit tweets/posts they can run with quickly in order to out-scoop their competitors in breaking news to fill the 24 hour news cycle. :(
Or is this a subtle way of suggesting that the West and its emancipatory technologies are somehow responsible for what is happening?
Could be --- after all, "In Tech We Trust" *headdesk* -- rick ....trying not to be TOO cynical of the US 'news' media
Could be some of that, Johanna. We sure love our technological determinism and development theses here in the West. Not to be lost here, I think, is the decreasing number of on-the-ground journalists stationed abroad in the era of media downsizing. When the "news sources" have no correspondent, no B-roll, etc., they tell us what's on Facebook, Twitter, etc. They don't tell us who's posting in these places, what expertise or contextual knowledge may or may not support the posts...but, hey, it's cheap and it fills up space in the hungry 24-hour news cycle. Even the Beeb is guilty of this at times, though far less often than American sources. -rp On 1/31/11 10:43 AM, "joana ro" <joanaro@googlemail.com> wrote: I wonder why Western media have overemphaiszed SM's role. What good does that do them? Does it simply make the story more accessible for its viewers, give us something in common? Obviously, it also fits nicely into a story of emancipation through media/technology - which would be favorable for other media. Or is this a subtle way of suggesting that the West and its emancipatory technologies are somehow responsible for what is happening? Best, Johanna On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Edward M. Corrado <ecorrado@ecorrado.us>wrote:
I haven't done much investigation into this area, but my hunch is, as others have mentioned, that the US (and to some extent European) media has overblown the use of Social Media has played in organizing protests in Egypt and Iran. I do think that, especially in Iran, Social Media played an important role in disseminate information about what was happening to people outside of Iran. I think that may be one of a reasons authorities in Egypt shut the Net and cell phones down -- not necessarily or only because of the role it could have in organizing protests.
Edward
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil@anu.edu.au> wrote:
I sit somewhere in the middle: its true that on-the-ground activism dominates but if Facebook etc had no impact then why would the authorities shut the Net down along phones? Journalist accounts out that point out that everyone wants to "friend" them so in those countries people are getting some info through those channels. I reckon this is having more impact than "the role of Twitter in Iran" last year which was indeed largely a projection from outside though my evidence is anecdotal at best. cheers Mathieu
----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremy hunsinger <jeremy@tmttlt.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:06 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt's Internet shutdown To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org> wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the
US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in
large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this.
Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of
offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more
theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
A number of my left leaning associates/comrades are watching Al Jazeera an Arab news network over the net. These would be political digital elites in the left in the west. http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ Peter Timusk B.Math statistics. BA legal studies Legal studies of the Information Age Vice President Computers for Communites School work blog http://notebook.webpagex.org Some papers www.webpagex.org -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Peaslee, Robert Sent: January-31-11 12:03 PM To: joana ro; Edward M. Corrado Cc: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt¹s Internet shutdown Could be some of that, Johanna. We sure love our technological determinism and development theses here in the West. Not to be lost here, I think, is the decreasing number of on-the-ground journalists stationed abroad in the era of media downsizing. When the "news sources" have no correspondent, no B-roll, etc., they tell us what's on Facebook, Twitter, etc. They don't tell us who's posting in these places, what expertise or contextual knowledge may or may not support the posts...but, hey, it's cheap and it fills up space in the hungry 24-hour news cycle. Even the Beeb is guilty of this at times, though far less often than American sources. -rp On 1/31/11 10:43 AM, "joana ro" <joanaro@googlemail.com> wrote: I wonder why Western media have overemphaiszed SM's role. What good does that do them? Does it simply make the story more accessible for its viewers, give us something in common? Obviously, it also fits nicely into a story of emancipation through media/technology - which would be favorable for other media. Or is this a subtle way of suggesting that the West and its emancipatory technologies are somehow responsible for what is happening? Best, Johanna On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Edward M. Corrado <ecorrado@ecorrado.us>wrote:
I haven't done much investigation into this area, but my hunch is, as others have mentioned, that the US (and to some extent European) media has overblown the use of Social Media has played in organizing protests in Egypt and Iran. I do think that, especially in Iran, Social Media played an important role in disseminate information about what was happening to people outside of Iran. I think that may be one of a reasons authorities in Egypt shut the Net and cell phones down -- not necessarily or only because of the role it could have in organizing protests.
Edward
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil@anu.edu.au> wrote:
I sit somewhere in the middle: its true that on-the-ground activism dominates but if Facebook etc had no impact then why would the authorities shut the Net down along phones? Journalist accounts out that point out that everyone wants to "friend" them so in those countries people are getting some info through those channels. I reckon this is having more impact than "the role of Twitter in Iran" last year which was indeed largely a projection from outside though my evidence is anecdotal at best. cheers Mathieu
----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremy hunsinger <jeremy@tmttlt.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:06 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt's Internet shutdown To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org> wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the
US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in
large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this.
Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of
offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more
theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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It's worth noting as well that Al-Jazeera, despite nominally being banned from broadcasting, has had excellent and thorough coverage. The station is well aware that they are primarily reporting to a non-Egyptian audience. Al-Jazeera journos are also on twitter, definitely writing for a Western audience. Alison Powell. On 31/01/11 8:44 PM, Peter Timusk wrote:
A number of my left leaning associates/comrades are watching Al Jazeera an Arab news network over the net. These would be political digital elites in the left in the west.
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
Peter Timusk B.Math statistics. BA legal studies Legal studies of the Information Age Vice President Computers for Communites School work blog http://notebook.webpagex.org Some papers www.webpagex.org
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Peaslee, Robert Sent: January-31-11 12:03 PM To: joana ro; Edward M. Corrado Cc: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt¹s Internet shutdown
Could be some of that, Johanna. We sure love our technological determinism and development theses here in the West.
Not to be lost here, I think, is the decreasing number of on-the-ground journalists stationed abroad in the era of media downsizing. When the "news sources" have no correspondent, no B-roll, etc., they tell us what's on Facebook, Twitter, etc. They don't tell us who's posting in these places, what expertise or contextual knowledge may or may not support the posts...but, hey, it's cheap and it fills up space in the hungry 24-hour news cycle. Even the Beeb is guilty of this at times, though far less often than American sources.
-rp
On 1/31/11 10:43 AM, "joana ro"<joanaro@googlemail.com> wrote:
I wonder why Western media have overemphaiszed SM's role. What good does that do them?
Does it simply make the story more accessible for its viewers, give us something in common? Obviously, it also fits nicely into a story of emancipation through media/technology - which would be favorable for other media.
Or is this a subtle way of suggesting that the West and its emancipatory technologies are somehow responsible for what is happening?
Best, Johanna
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Edward M. Corrado <ecorrado@ecorrado.us>wrote:
I haven't done much investigation into this area, but my hunch is, as others have mentioned, that the US (and to some extent European) media has overblown the use of Social Media has played in organizing protests in Egypt and Iran. I do think that, especially in Iran, Social Media played an important role in disseminate information about what was happening to people outside of Iran. I think that may be one of a reasons authorities in Egypt shut the Net and cell phones down -- not necessarily or only because of the role it could have in organizing protests.
Edward
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:28 AM, Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil@anu.edu.au> wrote:
I sit somewhere in the middle: its true that on-the-ground activism dominates but if Facebook etc had no impact then why would the authorities shut the Net down along phones? Journalist accounts out that point out that everyone wants to "friend" them so in those countries people are getting some info through those channels. I reckon this is having more impact than "the role of Twitter in Iran" last year which was indeed largely a projection from outside though my evidence is anecdotal at best. cheers Mathieu
----- Original Message ----- From: Jeremy hunsinger<jeremy@tmttlt.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:06 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt's Internet shutdown To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org> wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the
US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in
large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this.
Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of
offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more
theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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-- Dr Alison Powell Department of Media and Communication London School of Economics Houghton Street, London WC2A 2AE a.powell@lse.ac.uk Twitter: @postdocal
Um, since no-one else brought him up: this guy E. Morozow sees what he calls the "Internet Freedom Agenda" as a kind of failed tool of the US government so in that sense the Western mass media would just be acting as the cheerleader. cheers Mathieu ps. See for example: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/02/freedomgov?page=full And earlier: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/04/26/think_again_the_internet?pa... ----- Original Message ----- From: joana ro <joanaro@googlemail.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:44 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown To: "Edward M. Corrado" <ecorrado@ecorrado.us> Cc: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
I wonder why Western media have overemphaiszed SM's role. What good does that do them?
Does it simply make the story more accessible for its viewers, give us something in common? Obviously, it also fits nicely into a story of emancipation through media/technology - which would be favorable for other media.
Or is this a subtle way of suggesting that the West and its emancipatorytechnologies are somehow responsible for what is happening? Best, Johanna
I am reading his book, net delusion. He is on the end of the spectrum: true that autocratic states use internet to suppress dissidents, but that's not the whole picture. Too pessimistic. Best, Elham gheytanchi Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -----Original Message----- From: Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil@anu.edu.au> Sender: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:06:10 To: <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shu tdown Um, since no-one else brought him up: this guy E. Morozow sees what he calls the "Internet Freedom Agenda" as a kind of failed tool of the US government so in that sense the Western mass media would just be acting as the cheerleader. cheers Mathieu ps. See for example: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/02/freedomgov?page=full And earlier: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/04/26/think_again_the_internet?pa... ----- Original Message ----- From: joana ro <joanaro@googlemail.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:44 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown To: "Edward M. Corrado" <ecorrado@ecorrado.us> Cc: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
I wonder why Western media have overemphaiszed SM's role. What good does that do them?
Does it simply make the story more accessible for its viewers, give us something in common? Obviously, it also fits nicely into a story of emancipation through media/technology - which would be favorable for other media.
Or is this a subtle way of suggesting that the West and its emancipatorytechnologies are somehow responsible for what is happening? Best, Johanna
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Hi everyone, Morozow is provocative but too pessimistic. Roger Cohen's "Revolutionary Arab Geeks" had a nice rebuttal/assessment of his arguments ( http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/opinion/28iht-edcohen28.html?partner=rssny...). While western mainstream media may be hyping up the role of social media, I do think that social media are playing a role in channeling decades of pent up frustrations with autocratic regimes into the street. Why haven't been any mass uprisings in the region before this decade? What is intriguing is that political parties' role in these protests is virtually non-existent. Foreign influence? The Bush administration's ill-fated democracy promotion campaign failed to bring any tangible democratic change. Keeping in mind that the largest majority of these protesters are young people (at least at the beginning of the protests), a generation of "digital natives," the connection between online media and offline movements needs to be taken into account. At the very least, social media appear to facilitate a social contagion, from Tunisia to Egypt, facilitating something similar to Malcolm Gladwell's "Tipping Point." It is always tricky and difficult to cogently theorize the connection between the two (online protests and how offline movements lead to social change. Theoretical difficulties don't mean the absence of rational/real connections. Cheers, Aziz On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:45 PM, <elhamucla@hotmail.com> wrote:
I am reading his book, net delusion. He is on the end of the spectrum: true that autocratic states use internet to suppress dissidents, but that's not the whole picture. Too pessimistic.
Best, Elham gheytanchi
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
-----Original Message----- From: Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil@anu.edu.au> Sender: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 18:06:10 To: <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shu tdown
Um, since no-one else brought him up: this guy E. Morozow sees what he calls the "Internet Freedom Agenda" as a kind of failed tool of the US government so in that sense the Western mass media would just be acting as the cheerleader. cheers Mathieu
ps. See for example: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/02/freedomgov?page=full And earlier:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/04/26/think_again_the_internet?pa...
----- Original Message ----- From: joana ro <joanaro@googlemail.com> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 5:44 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown To: "Edward M. Corrado" <ecorrado@ecorrado.us> Cc: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
I wonder why Western media have overemphaiszed SM's role. What good does that do them?
Does it simply make the story more accessible for its viewers, give us something in common? Obviously, it also fits nicely into a story of emancipation through media/technology - which would be favorable for other media.
Or is this a subtle way of suggesting that the West and its emancipatorytechnologies are somehow responsible for what is happening? Best, Johanna
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aziz Douai, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Faculty of Social Science and Humanities University of Ontario Institute of Technology 55 Bond Street East Oshawa, ON L1G 0A5 Tel: 905.721.8668 <tel:+19057218668>, ext. 3790 Fax: 905.721.3372 <tel:+19057213372> E-mail: aziz.douai@uoit.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A popular government without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy, or perhaps both." James Madison, 1822 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. just wanted to point out the importance of "oral tradition" in Middle Eastern countries. Although majority are literate (can read blogs and social media text-based messages), audio and visual media are far better received. Best, elham gheytanchi
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:06:19 -0500 From: jeremy@tmttlt.com To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org> wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this. Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
On Jan 31, 2011, at 09:35 , Aziz Douai wrote:
Dear AoIR scholars,
I have been watching the contribution of social media to the street protests in Tunisia, Egypt, and other parts of the Middle East.
My question: What sort of theories would best explain social media's role in the contagion-like spread of these popular movements?
Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Aziz
I am very refreshed by these comments. I left Egypt yesterday (after staying in the south, away from the protests) but I can say that the government shut down of Internet services was effective and thorough. Though it is clear social media played a role in initiating the demonstrations, it did not sustain or organize the demonstrators once access was disrupted--which is when the demonstrations became the largest and more violent. I left feeling that social media were clearly not driving this social change, at least from an outside perspective formed with the opinions of those Egyptians I spoke with. Though my experience was certainly not social scientific, the still-important roles of traditional media and interpersonal communication seemed to be highlighted more than other cases elsewhere but that is definitely not coming through in press reports. Jacob -- Dr. Jacob Groshek Assistant Professor Erasmus School of History, Culture and Communication Erasmus University Rotterdam Rotterdam, the Netherlands (+31)-010-408-8627 office (+31)-062-304-2346 mobile groshek@eshcc.eur.nl http://www.jgroshek.com On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:33 PM, elham gheytanchi <elhamucla@hotmail.com> wrote:
I agree. just wanted to point out the importance of "oral tradition" in Middle Eastern countries. Although majority are literate (can read blogs and social media text-based messages), audio and visual media are far better received.
Best, elham gheytanchi
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:06:19 -0500 From: jeremy@tmttlt.com To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org> wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this. Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
On Jan 31, 2011, at 09:35 , Aziz Douai wrote:
Dear AoIR scholars,
I have been watching the contribution of social media to the street protests in Tunisia, Egypt, and other parts of the Middle East.
My question: What sort of theories would best explain social media's role in the contagion-like spread of these popular movements?
Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Aziz
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Dr. Jacob Groshek Assistant Professor Erasmus School of History, Culture and Communication Erasmus University Rotterdam Rotterdam, the Netherlands (+31)-010-408-8627 office (+31)-062-304-2346 mobile groshek@eshcc.eur.nl http://www.jgroshek.com
Really interesting discussion. I wonder if mobile media, SMS, has anything to add on to conventional SM interactions? In 2001, SMS was powerful in organisation of the protestors in Philippines and protests led resignation of President ... SOmething simialr happening in Egypt? kushchu On 31 Jan 2011, at 16:00, Jacob Groshek wrote:
I am very refreshed by these comments. I left Egypt yesterday (after staying in the south, away from the protests) but I can say that the government shut down of Internet services was effective and thorough. Though it is clear social media played a role in initiating the demonstrations, it did not sustain or organize the demonstrators once access was disrupted--which is when the demonstrations became the largest and more violent.
I left feeling that social media were clearly not driving this social change, at least from an outside perspective formed with the opinions of those Egyptians I spoke with. Though my experience was certainly not social scientific, the still-important roles of traditional media and interpersonal communication seemed to be highlighted more than other cases elsewhere but that is definitely not coming through in press reports.
Jacob
-- Dr. Jacob Groshek Assistant Professor Erasmus School of History, Culture and Communication Erasmus University Rotterdam Rotterdam, the Netherlands (+31)-010-408-8627 office (+31)-062-304-2346 mobile groshek@eshcc.eur.nl http://www.jgroshek.com
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:33 PM, elham gheytanchi <elhamucla@hotmail.com
wrote:
I agree. just wanted to point out the importance of "oral tradition" in Middle Eastern countries. Although majority are literate (can read blogs and social media text-based messages), audio and visual media are far better received.
Best, elham gheytanchi
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 10:06:19 -0500 From: jeremy@tmttlt.com To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown
I think social media has very little to do with this event. From my perspective, it looks very much like 1960s-70s organizational patterns. Television, radio, etc. has some to do with it though. I will say that it is likely that social media is being used to connect interested transnational elites to some extent, which also then drives media attention.
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Richard Forno <rforno@infowarrior.org
wrote:
I may end up being labelled a black sheep here, but I find the US media's infatuation with social media in regard to the Middle East protests to be overdone and a distraction for folks in understanding the real issues involved in the Arab world..
In terms of SM, people have been organising and protesting in large numbers all around the world long before the Internet or social media came into being --- but watching much of the US "news" coverage one is led to think the Internet is the primary force behind the coordination and street-level control of these recent gatherings.
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this. Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential. To wit: the Egyptian gov cut off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
My view is that SM is very helpful 'strategically" in terms of offering a long-term opportunity for folks to communicate/ collaborate/organise along shared views/goals/purposes -- but less so in terms of "hitting the streets" so to speak. Helpful, sure -- but not absolutely necessary.
I'll defer to those who specialise in this stuff to offer more theoreticaly rooted comments, for I need more caffeine.
-- rick
On Jan 31, 2011, at 09:35 , Aziz Douai wrote:
Dear AoIR scholars,
I have been watching the contribution of social media to the street protests in Tunisia, Egypt, and other parts of the Middle East.
My question: What sort of theories would best explain social media's role in the contagion-like spread of these popular movements?
Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Aziz
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http:// aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Dr. Jacob Groshek Assistant Professor Erasmus School of History, Culture and Communication Erasmus University Rotterdam Rotterdam, the Netherlands (+31)-010-408-8627 office (+31)-062-304-2346 mobile groshek@eshcc.eur.nl http://www.jgroshek.com _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
------- IBRAHIM KUSHCHU, MBA, MSC., PHD Associate Professor and Founding Director, Mobile Government Consortium International, UK http://www.mgovernment.org ik@mgovernment.org +44 1273 327876 - Visit mLife Conferences http://www.m4life.org
On 31-1-11 16:01, Richard Forno wrote:
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this. Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential.
Mm, I would say that we have no theoretical or empirical instruments to assess whether a factor is 'essential' for the emergence of social change or uprisings that pop up in mainstream media as 'sudden' (and thus urge for easy answers: oh, it must be caused by SM). There is probably a myriad of factors that co-constitute a tipping point, and the person who is able to figure out which one is essential would no doubt soon be a millionaire, in the field of marketting or espionage). One of the first tweets I saw about Tunesia (not yet Egypt) said something like 'hey, a revolution without tribute to Twitter or Facebook? Amazing!' Well, it did not take long... To wit: the Egyptian gov cut
off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
It does tell us a few things. Firstly, that it is considered disturbing or dangerous by the Egyptian powers that be. Of course, that does not prove that SM are essential. It may indicate that those powers are technological determinists but more probable is that they desperately try to regain control of any factor they may contribute to the revolt. And any communication medium - from words of mouth to printed press to television to radio to SM - obviously is such a factor, regardless whether one takes an optimist or pessimist stance. And may be it does tell us something else. Maybe a strategy of Internet shutdown reveals that the regime is not quit sure it will survive, while a strategy of non-shutting down but using social media to identify and prosecute people (as happened in Iran) indicates that the regime is sure of its enduring power. May be the SM strategies by repressive regimes are a baromoter of the strength of the regimes, rather than that the use of SM is a barometer of the strength of a people's revolt. kind regards Marianne van den Boomen Media and Culture Studies | University Utrecht Office: Kromme Nieuwegracht 20 (room T2.13A) Mail: Muntstraat 2a | 3512 EV UTRECHT Phone: +31 (0)30 253 9607 M.V.T.vandenBoomen@uu.nl | www.hum.uu.nl www.newmediastudies.nl | www.vandenboomen.org
Hello, This is indeed a very exciting time for internet scholars! I have written a series of blog posts about these topics: * Here's the summary of my seven theses on dictator's dilemma, i.e. whether Internet is inherently threatening to authoritarian regimes: (details at http://technosociology.org/?p=286) 1- The capacities of the Internet that are most threatening to authoritarian regimes are not necessarily those pertaining to spreading of censored information but rather its ability to support the formation of a counter-public that is outside the control of the state. ... 2- Dissent is not just about knowing what you think but about the formation of a public. A public is not just about what you know. Publics form through knowing that other people know what you know–and also knowing that they know what you know. ... 3- Thus, social media can be the most threatening part of the Internet to an authoritarian regime through its capacity to create a public(ish) sphere that is integrated into everyday life of millions of people and is outside the direct control of the state partly because it is so widespread and partly because it is not solely focused on politics. ... 4- The capacity to selectively filter the Internet is inversely proportional to the scale and strength of the dissent. ... 5- Thus, the effect of selective filtering is not to keep out information out of the hands of a determined public, but to allow the majority of ordinary people to continue to be able to operate without confronting information that might create cognitive dissonance between their existing support for the regime and the fact that they, along with many others, also have issues. ... 6- Social media is not going to create dissent where there is none.... 7- Finally, during times of strong upheaval, as in Egypt, dictator’s dilemma roars. * My thoughts on how to assess the role social media plays in social upheavals such as the ones in Tunisia and Egypt are here: http://technosociology.org/?p=263 My key argument is below: "And I think this is more and more what we will see; people will be using social media tools as an integral part of politics during those times that politics takes to the frontstage like uprisings and elections. Evgeny Morozov’s argument is that these tools are not the best suited for promoting democracy, especially in authoritarian regimes, because they also strengthen the surveillance, propaganda and censorship. As I argued in many places, however, they also strengthen capacity for political action through multiple means: 1- Social media lower barriers to collective action by providing channels of organization that are intermeshed with mundane social interaction and thus are harder to censor. 2- Social media can help create a public(ish) sphere in authoritarian regimes, thereby lowering the problem of society-level prisoner’s dilemma in which everyone knows that many people are unhappy but the extent to which this is the case remains hidden as official media is completely censored. 3- Social media helps strengthen communities as it is the antidote to isolating technologies (like suburbs and like televison) and community strength is key to political action. 4- Social media seems to have been key allowing the expatriate and exiled community to mobilize and act as key links between rest of the Arab sphere as well as Francophone parts of Europe and ultimately the rest of the world 5- Social media can be a key tool for disseminating information during a crisis. As we saw in the case of Iran, Burma, Moldova, Tunisia and others, the world had a strong sense of what was happening not because there were many reporters on the ground covering the events but because thousands of citizens armed with basic cell phones could record and transmit in real-time the situation on the ground. Yes, such reports are inevitably chaotic, and yes, the ability to disseminate information is not a sufficient cause for success, but it is surely a necessary one." * Finally, I recently reviewed Morozov's book for the Atlantic: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/01/delusions-aside-the-ne... Cheers, -z On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Marianne van den Boomen <M.V.T.vandenBoomen@uu.nl> wrote:
On 31-1-11 16:01, Richard Forno wrote:
IMHO social media is playing a supporting role in all of this. Is it helpful? Sure - but hardly essential.
Mm, I would say that we have no theoretical or empirical instruments to assess whether a factor is 'essential' for the emergence of social change or uprisings that pop up in mainstream media as 'sudden' (and thus urge for easy answers: oh, it must be caused by SM). There is probably a myriad of factors that co-constitute a tipping point, and the person who is able to figure out which one is essential would no doubt soon be a millionaire, in the field of marketting or espionage). One of the first tweets I saw about Tunesia (not yet Egypt) said something like 'hey, a revolution without tribute to Twitter or Facebook? Amazing!' Well, it did not take long...
To wit: the Egyptian gov cut
off many modes of communication helpful for social media applications, but did it adversely impact the protests? Nope. What does that tell us?
It does tell us a few things. Firstly, that it is considered disturbing or dangerous by the Egyptian powers that be. Of course, that does not prove that SM are essential. It may indicate that those powers are technological determinists but more probable is that they desperately try to regain control of any factor they may contribute to the revolt. And any communication medium - from words of mouth to printed press to television to radio to SM - obviously is such a factor, regardless whether one takes an optimist or pessimist stance. And may be it does tell us something else. Maybe a strategy of Internet shutdown reveals that the regime is not quit sure it will survive, while a strategy of non-shutting down but using social media to identify and prosecute people (as happened in Iran) indicates that the regime is sure of its enduring power. May be the SM strategies by repressive regimes are a baromoter of the strength of the regimes, rather than that the use of SM is a barometer of the strength of a people's revolt.
kind regards
Marianne van den Boomen
Media and Culture Studies | University Utrecht Office: Kromme Nieuwegracht 20 (room T2.13A) Mail: Muntstraat 2a | 3512 EV UTRECHT Phone: +31 (0)30 253 9607 M.V.T.vandenBoomen@uu.nl | www.hum.uu.nl www.newmediastudies.nl | www.vandenboomen.org _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Zeynep Tufekci, Ph.D. Department of Sociology and Anthropology University of Maryland, Baltimore County zeynep at umbc.edu or @techsoc http://userpages.umbc.edu/~zeynep/ http://www.technosociology.org
Hey there Zeynep, Interesting stuff, lots to discuss! One thing leapt out at me, I think you make a nice point about how: "Social media lower barriers to collective action by providing channels of organization that are intermeshed with mundane social interaction and thus are harder to censor." However this raises the question of whether these channels of organisation are not potentially diluted by the mundaneness of the social interaction in which they are intermeshed? I suppose this does not apply to (pre) insurrectional situations where people's daily lives are submerged in politics. However in non (pre) insurrectional situations - in Western liberal democracies for example this may be the case? cheers, Mathieu ----- Original Message ----- From: Zeynep Tufekci <socnetres@gmail.com> Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011 10:52 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] ISOC Statement on Egypt’s Internet shutdown To: M.V.T.vandenBoomen@uu.nl Cc: air-l@listserv.aoir.org > Hello, > > This is indeed a very exciting time for internet scholars! I have > written a series of blog posts about these topics: > > * Here's the summary of my seven theses on dictator's dilemma, i.e. > whether Internet is inherently threatening to authoritarian regimes: > (details at http://technosociology.org/?p=286)
Dear all, I have recently regained an interest in Nancy Fraser's reworking of Habermas' notion of the public sphere. Especially her writings on 'subaltern counter publics' where people circulate views that critically engage with mainstream/dominant public spheres have caught my attention as they seem to capture nicely the dynamics of certain online discussion boards that fall below the radar. For instance dedicated discussion boards set up and frequented by ethnic minorities. However, I was wondering if anyone on the list uses a similar lens in her/his work and/or is currently engaged with the work of Fraser or similar? Kind regards, Koen Leurs www.koenleurs.net www.uu.nl/wiredup
Hi Koen, For my dissertation, I am currently looking at how ethno-cultural narratives are created in online communities (spec. blogs that discuss domestic violence within the South Asian dispora in the US), from the perspectives of ethnic-community empowerment and identity negotiation. I haven't looked at Nancy Fraser's work yet, but I have come across research that reworks the public/private debate, esp. in the context of creating minority counter-publics online, often working from within the dominant discursive spaces. You can perhaps refer to Rohit Chopra's work, "Global primordialities: virtual identity politics in online Hindutva and online Dalit discourse," which looks at the intersection of technology and culture in online representations (community websites) of the elite/dominant Hindu nationalist community and the subaltern Dalit community (New Media & Society, 2006, vol. 8/2, pp. 187-206). You can also try: Mallapragada, M. (2006). Home, Homeland, Homepage: Belonging and the Indian-American web. New Media and Society, 8(2), pp. 207-227. She talks about how online interactions/communities of ethnic minorities often ruptures the public/private, gender-race divide/politics, and creates not only geo-political, but also rhetorical transgressions and ambivalence. I hope these help and prove interesting for your purposes. Best, Ishani Mukherjee Doctoral Candidate Dept. of Communication, UIC On Mon, January 31, 2011 9:37 am, Leurs, K.H.A. (Koen) wrote:
Dear all,
I have recently regained an interest in Nancy Fraser's reworking of Habermas' notion of the public sphere. Especially her writings on 'subaltern counter publics' where people circulate views that critically engage with mainstream/dominant public spheres have caught my attention as they seem to capture nicely the dynamics of certain online discussion boards that fall below the radar. For instance dedicated discussion boards set up and frequented by ethnic minorities.
However, I was wondering if anyone on the list uses a similar lens in her/his work and/or is currently engaged with the work of Fraser or similar?
Kind regards,
Koen Leurs www.koenleurs.net www.uu.nl/wiredup _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Hi Koen, Check this out. https://vpn2.uio.no/+CSCO+ch756767633A2F2F6A6A6A2E706A662E76797976616276662E... On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Mukherjee, Ishani <imukhe2@uic.edu> wrote:
Hi Koen,
For my dissertation, I am currently looking at how ethno-cultural narratives are created in online communities (spec. blogs that discuss domestic violence within the South Asian dispora in the US), from the perspectives of ethnic-community empowerment and identity negotiation. I haven't looked at Nancy Fraser's work yet, but I have come across research that reworks the public/private debate, esp. in the context of creating minority counter-publics online, often working from within the dominant discursive spaces.
You can perhaps refer to Rohit Chopra's work, "Global primordialities: virtual identity politics in online Hindutva and online Dalit discourse," which looks at the intersection of technology and culture in online representations (community websites) of the elite/dominant Hindu nationalist community and the subaltern Dalit community (New Media & Society, 2006, vol. 8/2, pp. 187-206).
You can also try: Mallapragada, M. (2006). Home, Homeland, Homepage: Belonging and the Indian-American web. New Media and Society, 8(2), pp. 207-227. She talks about how online interactions/communities of ethnic minorities often ruptures the public/private, gender-race divide/politics, and creates not only geo-political, but also rhetorical transgressions and ambivalence.
I hope these help and prove interesting for your purposes.
Best,
Ishani Mukherjee Doctoral Candidate Dept. of Communication, UIC
On Mon, January 31, 2011 9:37 am, Leurs, K.H.A. (Koen) wrote:
Dear all,
I have recently regained an interest in Nancy Fraser's reworking of Habermas' notion of the public sphere. Especially her writings on 'subaltern counter publics' where people circulate views that critically engage with mainstream/dominant public spheres have caught my attention as they seem to capture nicely the dynamics of certain online discussion boards that fall below the radar. For instance dedicated discussion boards set up and frequented by ethnic minorities.
However, I was wondering if anyone on the list uses a similar lens in her/his work and/or is currently engaged with the work of Fraser or similar?
Kind regards,
Koen Leurs www.koenleurs.net www.uu.nl/wiredup _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
For a good theoretical overview of issues around online counter-publics you might be interested in this collection: Lincoln Dahlberg and Eugenia Siapera (eds) Radical Democracy and the Internet: Interrogating Theory and Practice (2007) Palgrave. cheers, Mathieu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mukherjee, Ishani" <imukhe2@uic.edu> Date: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:02 pm Subject: Re: [Air-L] Subaltern counter publics online? To: "Leurs, K.H.A. (Koen)" <K.H.A.Leurs@uu.nl> Cc: air-l@listserv.aoir.org
Hi Koen,
For my dissertation, I am currently looking at how ethno-cultural narratives are created in online communities (spec. blogs that discuss domestic violence within the South Asian dispora in the US), from the perspectives of ethnic-community empowerment and identity negotiation. I haven't looked at Nancy Fraser's work yet, but I have come across research that reworks the public/private debate, esp. in the context of creatingminority counter-publics online, often working from within the dominant discursive spaces.
You can perhaps refer to Rohit Chopra's work, "Global primordialities: virtual identity politics in online Hindutva and online Dalit discourse,"which looks at the intersection of technology and culture in online representations (community websites) of the elite/dominant Hindu nationalist community and the subaltern Dalit community (New Media & Society, 2006, vol. 8/2, pp. 187-206).
You can also try: Mallapragada, M. (2006). Home, Homeland, Homepage: Belonging and the Indian-American web. New Media and Society, 8(2), pp. 207-227. She talks about how online interactions/communities of ethnic minoritiesoften ruptures the public/private, gender-race divide/politics, and creates not only geo-political, but also rhetorical transgressions and ambivalence.
I hope these help and prove interesting for your purposes.
Best,
participants (20)
-
Alison Powell -
Aziz Douai -
Edward M. Corrado -
elham gheytanchi -
elhamucla＠hotmail.com
-
henry mainsah -
Jacob Groshek -
Jeremy hunsinger -
joana ro -
Leurs, K.H.A. (Koen) -
Marianne van den Boomen -
Mathieu ONeil -
Mukherjee, Ishani -
Peaslee, Robert -
Peter Timusk -
Prof. I. Kushchu -
Richard Forno -
Sari -
William Dutton -
Zeynep Tufekci