Re: [Air-l] vampirefreaks and yesterday's massacre
Thank you to those who have suggested I look in Google cache and similar web archives. Just to clarify on my last post and question, however, I'm trying to find information about how and why and by whom the journal was deleted. It seems that this is standard practice in these cases, but who makes the actual decision to remove it - is it the sites themselves, or is it a standard part of the police investigation (or is there even some law within the patriot act that dictates that they have to)? On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:42:33 -0400 gelmer@ryerson.ca wrote:
Is it not cached by Google?
/Greg
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sara M. Grimes" <smgrimes@sfu.ca> Date: Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:22 pm Subject: [Air-l] vampirefreaks and yesterday's massacre
Hi All - The shootings at Dawson's College in Montreal, QC, Canada yesterday remainbig and deeply disturbing news in Canada, as the Quebec and Montreal police begin to piece together a profile of the killer. Today's CBC online newssite mentions a goth/vampire themed web community that the killer belonged to (vampirefreaks.com), where he apparently kept an online diary and gave hints about what he was planning (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/09/14/gunman- shooting.html).In trying to access his blog today, I discovered that it has unsurprisingly been removed. I'm assuming that police officials are responsible for this, to allow the investigation to proceed without interference, but could also see the site operators taking it down for other reasons. I was wondering if anyone has heard anything to confirm when/why/by whom the diary was removed?Is it standard practice during this type of investigation? I seem to remember hearing about similar blog deletions after past shootings of this kind, but I can't find anything written on this.
Sara M. Grimes PhD Candidate/School of Communication Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab Simon Fraser University _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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Sara M. Grimes PhD Candidate/School of Communication Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab Simon Fraser University
Hi Sara Indeed, it seems that this is standard practice when such an event occurs. I recall a news story a while back that discussed such removals. In that particular case, it was a MySpace page, and it was deemed to have been removed out of respect of the victims (among other reasons). The article reported that it was removed also due to the increase of "rubbernecking" traffic to the site (curious onlookers creating traffic jams). Another reason they had removed the page was that the comments thread had become over wrought with posts resulting in a relative flame war among commentors. ( I will try to locate the article, if only I can remember what newspaper it was in) As for any legal issues, indeed it could be considered part of their investigation, much like one's apartment and automobile. If I find the link, I will pass it on. -Kelly Boudreau Dept. of Sociology & Anthropology Concordia University Montreal, Canada On 9/14/06, Sara M. Grimes <smgrimes@sfu.ca> wrote:
Thank you to those who have suggested I look in Google cache and similar web archives.
Just to clarify on my last post and question, however, I'm trying to find information about how and why and by whom the journal was deleted. It seems that this is standard practice in these cases, but who makes the actual decision to remove it - is it the sites themselves, or is it a standard part of the police investigation (or is there even some law within the patriot act that dictates that they have to)?
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:42:33 -0400 gelmer@ryerson.ca wrote:
Is it not cached by Google?
/Greg
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sara M. Grimes" <smgrimes@sfu.ca> Date: Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:22 pm Subject: [Air-l] vampirefreaks and yesterday's massacre
Hi All - The shootings at Dawson's College in Montreal, QC, Canada yesterday remainbig and deeply disturbing news in Canada, as the Quebec and Montreal police begin to piece together a profile of the killer. Today's CBC online newssite mentions a goth/vampire themed web community that the killer belonged to (vampirefreaks.com), where he apparently kept an online diary and gave hints about what he was planning (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/09/14/gunman- shooting.html).In trying to access his blog today, I discovered that it has unsurprisingly been removed. I'm assuming that police officials are responsible for this, to allow the investigation to proceed without interference, but could also see the site operators taking it down for other reasons. I was wondering if anyone has heard anything to confirm when/why/by whom the diary was removed?Is it standard practice during this type of investigation? I seem to remember hearing about similar blog deletions after past shootings of this kind, but I can't find anything written on this.
Sara M. Grimes PhD Candidate/School of Communication Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab Simon Fraser University _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Sara M. Grimes PhD Candidate/School of Communication Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab Simon Fraser University _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Just a note - The Patriot act is US legislation and this is a Canadian investigation. Is anyone else waiting to hear how the moral panic might shape up? We've already had heavy metal music (Late 80s / Early 90s shooters - see Tipper Gore) and violent video games (Columbine), surely someone is going to editorialize some link between social software and this terrible event. Take care, BERNiE Bernie Hogan PhD Candidate Department of Sociology University of Toronto I received a message from Sara M. Grimes at approximately 9/14/06 1:49 PM. Above is my reply.
Thank you to those who have suggested I look in Google cache and similar web archives.
Just to clarify on my last post and question, however, I'm trying to find information about how and why and by whom the journal was deleted. It seems that this is standard practice in these cases, but who makes the actual decision to remove it - is it the sites themselves, or is it a standard part of the police investigation (or is there even some law within the patriot act that dictates that they have to)?
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:42:33 -0400 gelmer@ryerson.ca wrote:
Is it not cached by Google?
/Greg
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sara M. Grimes" <smgrimes@sfu.ca> Date: Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:22 pm Subject: [Air-l] vampirefreaks and yesterday's massacre
Hi All - The shootings at Dawson's College in Montreal, QC, Canada yesterday remainbig and deeply disturbing news in Canada, as the Quebec and Montreal police begin to piece together a profile of the killer. Today's CBC online newssite mentions a goth/vampire themed web community that the killer belonged to (vampirefreaks.com), where he apparently kept an online diary and gave hints about what he was planning (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/09/14/gunman- shooting.html).In trying to access his blog today, I discovered that it has unsurprisingly been removed. I'm assuming that police officials are responsible for this, to allow the investigation to proceed without interference, but could also see the site operators taking it down for other reasons. I was wondering if anyone has heard anything to confirm when/why/by whom the diary was removed?Is it standard practice during this type of investigation? I seem to remember hearing about similar blog deletions after past shootings of this kind, but I can't find anything written on this.
Sara M. Grimes PhD Candidate/School of Communication Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab Simon Fraser University _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Sara M. Grimes PhD Candidate/School of Communication Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab Simon Fraser University _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
--
Columbine also had the connection between goth music and culture, which is where I'd think a lot of the blame will end up for the Dawson's shooting as well - if anything, I would think something might be mentioned between the use of social software as a vehicle for planning the killings, rather than an explicit link being made between the two. I'm interested in what the reactions from other online goth communities will be like, both members and site admin, who I can only assume will be under fire in the near future. Joshua Raclaw - PhD student Department of Linguistics Culture, Language & Social Practice University of Colorado at Boulder http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~raclaw/ Quoting Bernie Hogan <bernie.hogan@utoronto.ca>: * Just a note - The Patriot act is US legislation and this is a Canadian * investigation. * * Is anyone else waiting to hear how the moral panic might shape up? * We've already had heavy metal music (Late 80s / Early 90s shooters - see * Tipper Gore) and violent video games (Columbine), surely someone is going to * editorialize some link between social software and this terrible event. * * Take care, * BERNiE * * Bernie Hogan * PhD Candidate * Department of Sociology * University of Toronto * * I received a message from Sara M. Grimes at approximately 9/14/06 1:49 PM. * Above is my reply. * * > Thank you to those who have suggested I look in Google cache and similar * web * > archives. * > * > Just to clarify on my last post and question, however, I'm trying to find * > information about how and why and by whom the journal was deleted. It seems * > that this is standard practice in these cases, but who makes the actual * > decision to remove it - is it the sites themselves, or is it a standard * part * > of the police investigation (or is there even some law within the patriot * > act that dictates that they have to)? * > * > On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:42:33 -0400 gelmer@ryerson.ca wrote: * >> Is it not cached by Google? * >> * >> /Greg * >> * >> ----- Original Message ----- * >> From: "Sara M. Grimes" <smgrimes@sfu.ca> * >> Date: Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:22 pm * >> Subject: [Air-l] vampirefreaks and yesterday's massacre * >> * >>> Hi All - * >>> The shootings at Dawson's College in Montreal, QC, Canada yesterday * >>> remainbig and deeply disturbing news in Canada, as the Quebec and * >>> Montreal police * >>> begin to piece together a profile of the killer. Today's CBC online * >>> newssite mentions a goth/vampire themed web community that the * >>> killer belonged * >>> to (vampirefreaks.com), where he apparently kept an online diary * >>> and gave * >>> hints about what he was planning * >>> (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/09/14/gunman- * >>> shooting.html).In trying to access his blog today, I discovered * >>> that it has unsurprisingly * >>> been removed. I'm assuming that police officials are responsible * >>> for this, * >>> to allow the investigation to proceed without interference, but * >>> could also * >>> see the site operators taking it down for other reasons. I was * >>> wondering if * >>> anyone has heard anything to confirm when/why/by whom the diary was * >>> removed?Is it standard practice during this type of investigation? * >>> I seem to * >>> remember hearing about similar blog deletions after past shootings * >>> of this * >>> kind, but I can't find anything written on this. * >>> * >>> Sara M. Grimes * >>> PhD Candidate/School of Communication * >>> Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab * >>> Simon Fraser University * >>> _______________________________________________ * >>> The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list * >>> is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org * >>> Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: * >>> http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org * >>> * >>> Join the Association of Internet Researchers: * >>> http://www.aoir.org/ * >>> * >> * > * > * > Sara M. Grimes * > PhD Candidate/School of Communication * > Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab * > Simon Fraser University * > _______________________________________________ * > The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list * > is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org * > Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: * > http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org * > * > Join the Association of Internet Researchers: * > http://www.aoir.org/ * * -- * * * * _______________________________________________ * The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list * is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org * Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: * http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org * * Join the Association of Internet Researchers: * http://www.aoir.org/ *
There was another goth-related murder, that of Pamela Vitale in Calfornia. Her murderer was recently convicted. As Josh said it will be interesting to see how online communities respond. Bonnie Bonnie A. Nardi School of Information and Computer Sciences University of California, Irvine Irvine, CA 92697-3425 (949) 824-6534 www.artifex.org/~bonnie/ On Sep 14, 2006, at 11:37 AM, joshua raclaw wrote:
Columbine also had the connection between goth music and culture, which is where I'd think a lot of the blame will end up for the Dawson's shooting as well - if anything, I would think something might be mentioned between the use of social software as a vehicle for planning the killings, rather than an explicit link being made between the two.
I'm interested in what the reactions from other online goth communities will be like, both members and site admin, who I can only assume will be under fire in the near future.
Joshua Raclaw - PhD student Department of Linguistics Culture, Language & Social Practice University of Colorado at Boulder http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~raclaw/
Quoting Bernie Hogan <bernie.hogan@utoronto.ca>:
* Just a note - The Patriot act is US legislation and this is a Canadian * investigation. * * Is anyone else waiting to hear how the moral panic might shape up? * We've already had heavy metal music (Late 80s / Early 90s shooters - see * Tipper Gore) and violent video games (Columbine), surely someone is going to * editorialize some link between social software and this terrible event. * * Take care, * BERNiE * * Bernie Hogan * PhD Candidate * Department of Sociology * University of Toronto * * I received a message from Sara M. Grimes at approximately 9/14/06 1:49 PM. * Above is my reply. * * > Thank you to those who have suggested I look in Google cache and similar * web * > archives. * > * > Just to clarify on my last post and question, however, I'm trying to find * > information about how and why and by whom the journal was deleted. It seems * > that this is standard practice in these cases, but who makes the actual * > decision to remove it - is it the sites themselves, or is it a standard * part * > of the police investigation (or is there even some law within the patriot * > act that dictates that they have to)? * > * > On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 13:42:33 -0400 gelmer@ryerson.ca wrote: * >> Is it not cached by Google? * >> * >> /Greg * >> * >> ----- Original Message ----- * >> From: "Sara M. Grimes" <smgrimes@sfu.ca> * >> Date: Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:22 pm * >> Subject: [Air-l] vampirefreaks and yesterday's massacre * >> * >>> Hi All - * >>> The shootings at Dawson's College in Montreal, QC, Canada yesterday * >>> remainbig and deeply disturbing news in Canada, as the Quebec and * >>> Montreal police * >>> begin to piece together a profile of the killer. Today's CBC online * >>> newssite mentions a goth/vampire themed web community that the * >>> killer belonged * >>> to (vampirefreaks.com), where he apparently kept an online diary * >>> and gave * >>> hints about what he was planning * >>> (http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/09/14/gunman- * >>> shooting.html).In trying to access his blog today, I discovered * >>> that it has unsurprisingly * >>> been removed. I'm assuming that police officials are responsible * >>> for this, * >>> to allow the investigation to proceed without interference, but * >>> could also * >>> see the site operators taking it down for other reasons. I was * >>> wondering if * >>> anyone has heard anything to confirm when/why/by whom the diary was * >>> removed?Is it standard practice during this type of investigation? * >>> I seem to * >>> remember hearing about similar blog deletions after past shootings * >>> of this * >>> kind, but I can't find anything written on this. * >>> * >>> Sara M. Grimes * >>> PhD Candidate/School of Communication * >>> Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab * >>> Simon Fraser University * >>> _______________________________________________ * >>> The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list * >>> is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org * >>> Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: * >>> http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org * >>> * >>> Join the Association of Internet Researchers: * >>> http://www.aoir.org/ * >>> * >> * > * > * > Sara M. Grimes * > PhD Candidate/School of Communication * > Research Assistant/Applied Communication + Technology (ACT) Lab * > Simon Fraser University * > _______________________________________________ * > The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list * > is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org * > Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: * > http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org * > * > Join the Association of Internet Researchers: * > http://www.aoir.org/ * * -- * * * * _______________________________________________ * The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list * is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org * Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: * http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org * * Join the Association of Internet Researchers: * http://www.aoir.org/ * _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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I agree, it already is interesting: follow the latest journal entry of the site's owner (http://vampirefreaks.com/) - he is trying to do some white PR here, the responses are first from the community only, giving support to one another, blaming the media for blaming them and solidarizing with the victims (not in many posts, though, their community is the most important thing in this discussion), then come some people from the outside blaming the community, trying to flood the forum (one person) or solidarizing with the victims/blaming members of the forum for not solidarizing enough and focusing on their community instead. Fascinating, and I've just started reading. Anna
There was another goth-related murder, that of Pamela Vitale in Calfornia. Her murderer was recently convicted. As Josh said it will be interesting to see how online communities respond.
Bonnie
-- Anna Rogozinska, M.A. Institute of Polish Culture Warsaw University E-mail: milady@eo.pl Www: http://milady.anime.pl AIM and Skype: miladypl
I found some cache in waybackmachine, too. Interestingly, somebody just made up the killer's journal to tease him http://vampirefreaks.com/u/Trench It's my personal opinion but if the decision of removing the journal was made by the sites themselves, this copy site will be removed soon with the same reason. In the case of Japan, since 2004 when "net-group-suicide" has become in vogue, the law has obliged providers to report criminal/suicide-suggestive messages to the official. From comparative perspective, I'm interested in Canadian cases... Yukari -- M.A. candidate Communication and Culture Studies Comcult GSA Webmaster (York) yukaseko@yorku.ca Quoting "Sara M. Grimes" <smgrimes@sfu.ca>:
Thank you to those who have suggested I look in Google cache and similar web archives.
Just to clarify on my last post and question, however, I'm trying to find information about how and why and by whom the journal was deleted. It seems that this is standard practice in these cases, but who makes the actual decision to remove it - is it the sites themselves, or is it a standard part of the police investigation (or is there even some law within the patriot act that dictates that they have to)?
participants (7)
-
Anna Rogozinska -
Bernie Hogan -
Bonnie Nardi -
joshua raclaw -
kelly boudreau -
Sara M. Grimes -
Yukari Seko