Folks, I've seen too many lists torn apart by digressing from their purpose -- in this case, discussing internet research -- to other matters. Sure, everything is germane (I once unsuccessfully tried to get the BMW list to discuss the class struggle as a cause of car jackings), but some are more germane than others. Second, I've seen too many instances where posters to lists assume that everyone shares their opinions. It's part of the partial communities that we belong to. There is a rough community of interest around internet research here, but that doesn't generalize to politics, etc. In short, political discussions belong on political lists, not here. That's my .02. YMMV (curious if anyone remembers where the latter comes from). Barry ___________________________________________________________________ Barry Wellman Professor of Sociology NetLab Director wellman@chass.utoronto.ca http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman Centre for Urban & Community Studies University of Toronto 455 Spadina Avenue Toronto Canada M5S 2G8 fax:+1-416-978-7162 ------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Just Out ***** (1) _The Internet in Everyday Life_ Barry Wellman & Caroline Haythornthwaite, eds. Oxford: Blackwell, 2002 (2) _Social Strucutres: A Network Approach_ Barry Wellman & S.D. Berkowitz, eds. Toronto: CSPI/Women's Press ___________________________________________________________________
I am sure that there is a very interesting digression about how YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary), relates to EPA standards, fuel consumption, and back to Middle Eastern Politics and the class struggle involved with BMWs, but heeding Barry's comments, I would like to return to (hopefully) the more germain topic of studying the role of the internet in the current issues surrounding proposed U.S. attack against Iraq. I remember from my days as a demonstrator, that an important aspect of the demonstrations was always gathering afterwards for a beer to talk about what had happened which helped galvanize the sense of commitment to the cause, sense of community etc. I've noticed what seems to be a similar occurance in blogs, especially after last weekend. I know that there are people here interested in the role of blogs. Is anyone looking at blogs as an emerging political tool? For another example to look at in this area, Former Vermont Governor Dean's campaign for the Presidency has a blog. (http://dean2004.blogspot.com) Is this a topic that the panel on Blogs in Toronto is going to touch on? Aldon --- Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
Folks,
I've seen too many lists torn apart by digressing from their purpose -- in this case, discussing internet research -- to other matters. Sure, everything is germane (I once unsuccessfully tried to get the BMW list to discuss the class struggle as a cause of car jackings), but some are more germane than others.
Second, I've seen too many instances where posters to lists assume that everyone shares their opinions. It's part of the partial communities that we belong to. There is a rough community of interest around internet research here, but that doesn't generalize to politics, etc. In short, political discussions belong on political lists, not here.
That's my .02. YMMV (curious if anyone remembers where the latter comes from).
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a quick point regarding the appropriateness of a discussion of global peace movements and/using the internet on a list like air-l:
In short, political discussions belong on political lists, not here.
using similar logic, should we say that a post about feminist and feminist-bashing web sites pertains only to a women's studies list? or a discussion about social networks belongs only on a sociology list? or a question about postcolonial readings of cyberdiscourses should be relegated to a postcolonialism list? considering the times in which we live, i can't imagine a topic *more* appropriate to air-l than one about the internet and global movements (be it for imperialism or anti-imperialism, for war or peace). i've enjoyed and learned a lot from the posts so far and hope they continue to grow in many directions. in my original post, i mentioned the ways in which members of the global peace movement are using the net, among other things, to protest the threat of war. but i also mentioned, and remain very interested in, the inverse: how the threat of war is influencing the way we use the net. here in the US (and i'm curious to hear about how things are going down outside the states), popular media has given very little coverage to protest movements, until feb 15th. polls that suggest support for the war get a ton of coverage while those that show a growing reluctance get little if any coverage. at the same time, there seems to be a culture of fear, not unlike a new breed of mccarthyism, that has silenced many would-be opponents of this policy or that threat. there's many repercussions to this of course, but i'm particular interested in how a relatively conservative press and culture of fear has resulted in new net tactics. for example: i have dozens of friends and colleagues who have opened new hotmail or yahoo accounts in fear of having their company, university, and/or service provider monitor their email; i know a number of folks who seem to do nothing but comb the web for alternative news, graphics, and animations and distribute them to everyone they know (and don't know); i've spoken to countless folks in the states who say that the only reason they knew, before feb 15th, that there was a protest movement growing in the US was from learning about it online, on listservs, on web sites, on blogs (like Aldon Hynes noted); and, like Robert Tynes mentioned in a post, there's been a number of massive email campaigns to try to sway opinions. i'd be interested to hear any comments on this, and believe it is completely relevant to this list. david
david silver wrote:
a quick point regarding the appropriateness of a discussion of global peace movements and/using the internet on a list like air-l:
In short, political discussions belong on political lists, not here.
using similar logic, should we say that a post about feminist and feminist-bashing web sites pertains only to a women's studies list?
Your argument is removed from the point. I think it should be clear that only 2 of the posting to this list were primarily political. Those two were focused on engaging members in political action regarding Turkey and made the assumption that members of the list were against military intervention in Iraq. They were not about internet cultural, research, issues, although a follow up message on effectiveness of email was. Quentin
participants (4)
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Aldon Hynes -
Barry Wellman -
david silver -
Quentin (Gad) Jones