Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning
Textual and verbal literacy will retain their privileged positions as the key to positions of power and control in society, and as the heart of knowledge work. As the natives becomes increasingly digital they may also become increasingly image-oriented, and decreasingly print literate. Education--schools and colleges--are assigned the task of providing the knowledge and skills the general culture fail to provide. As visual imagery and audio become increasingly pervasive in the general culture, it will fall to the schools and colleges to provide the core skills of print literacy which the digital natives will not develop by immersion in the media. What do you think? Steve E. For what it's worth, I think this is where exactly where things are moving. Though perhaps print literate isn't quite the right phrase. Typographically literate might work better (texts have too many possible connotations). What we are finding, ironically here at the School of Print Media, is a definite move away from the "willing" consumption of typographic texts (be they electronic or paper) by many of our students. We've found that also corresponds with problems articulating arguments and concepts (be it orally or written). The problem that I have with discussions of alternate learning modalities is that typographic text still remains the most prevalent method of understanding abstract concepts, especially in industries where media rich training is too costly to produce. As a technical school, we face the challenge of preparing students for jobs that don't currently exist, using software that we know will be antiquated by the time they leave the university (assuming a four year stint). I cannot, at this moment, foresee an immediate future where one can avoid developing the skills to parse technology manuals and/or typographic web content. It's for those reasons that I (and a number of my colleagues) are moving towards the model that Steve laid out in his final paragraph. We believe that the best way to make our students adaptable is to drill the core skills of typographic literacy (as well as the core skills that publishing production is based upon). I am working to come up with better ways to orient those skills in a larger media ecosystem. However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based. - Matt -- ----------------------------- Matthew Bernius New Media and Customer Intelligence Strategist for Hire mBernius@gMail.com http://www.waking-dream.com
On 5/24/07, Matthew Bernius <mbernius@gmail.com> wrote:
However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based.
I don't think it's retrograde at all. Given the vast amounts of knowledge and research that are available exclusively in print (I stumped one of our research librarians a few months ago when I asked about searching for video content just as I do for text, using powerful tools and large databases), scholars, researchers, and educated persons *must* master this medium if they're to take advantage of that accumulated knowledge. Maybe I'm terribly wrong or misguided but that just seems like common sense to me. Kevin
Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did latin for higher education. --- Matthew Bernius <mbernius@gmail.com> wrote:
Textual and verbal literacy will retain their privileged positions as the key to positions of power and control in society, and as the heart of knowledge work.
As the natives becomes increasingly digital they may also become increasingly image-oriented, and decreasingly print literate.
Education--schools and colleges--are assigned the task of providing the knowledge and skills the general culture fail to provide.
As visual imagery and audio become increasingly pervasive in the general culture, it will fall to the schools and colleges to provide the core skills of print literacy which the digital natives will not develop by immersion in the media.
What do you think?
Steve E.
For what it's worth, I think this is where exactly where things are moving. Though perhaps print literate isn't quite the right phrase. Typographically literate might work better (texts have too many possible connotations). What we are finding, ironically here at the School of Print Media, is a definite move away from the "willing" consumption of typographic texts (be they electronic or paper) by many of our students. We've found that also corresponds with problems articulating arguments and concepts (be it orally or written).
The problem that I have with discussions of alternate learning modalities is that typographic text still remains the most prevalent method of understanding abstract concepts, especially in industries where media rich training is too costly to produce. As a technical school, we face the challenge of preparing students for jobs that don't currently exist, using software that we know will be antiquated by the time they leave the university (assuming a four year stint). I cannot, at this moment, foresee an immediate future where one can avoid developing the skills to parse technology manuals and/or typographic web content.
It's for those reasons that I (and a number of my colleagues) are moving towards the model that Steve laid out in his final paragraph. We believe that the best way to make our students adaptable is to drill the core skills of typographic literacy (as well as the core skills that publishing production is based upon). I am working to come up with better ways to orient those skills in a larger media ecosystem. However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based.
- Matt
-- ----------------------------- Matthew Bernius New Media and Customer Intelligence Strategist for Hire mBernius@gMail.com http://www.waking-dream.com _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Philiip Wasdaskey writes: <<Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did latin for higher education.>> This has become the new conventional wisdom, widely circulated and believed by "digital natives" and those who believe that the natives are a new breed with new nervous systems, visual learners, multitaskers, and so on. That is: text is the new Latin, a concern of mandarins and antiquarians, the world itself to be organized and run by the imagists and the visualists. What is going on, or should go, to engage with this clouded and uncertain vision before it takes control of schools and colleges and becomes offical intellectual doctrine? Steve Eskow --- Matthew Bernius <mbernius@gmail.com> wrote:
Textual and verbal literacy will retain their privileged positions as the key to positions of power and control in society, and as the heart of knowledge work.
As the natives becomes increasingly digital they may also become increasingly image-oriented, and decreasingly print literate.
Education--schools and colleges--are assigned the task of providing the knowledge and skills the general culture fail to provide.
As visual imagery and audio become increasingly pervasive in the general culture, it will fall to the schools and colleges to provide the core skills of print literacy which the digital natives will not develop by immersion in the media.
What do you think?
Steve E.
For what it's worth, I think this is where exactly where things are moving. Though perhaps print literate isn't quite the right phrase. Typographically literate might work better (texts have too many possible connotations). What we are finding, ironically here at the School of Print Media, is a definite move away from the "willing" consumption of typographic texts (be they electronic or paper) by many of our students. We've found that also corresponds with problems articulating arguments and concepts (be it orally or written).
The problem that I have with discussions of alternate learning modalities is that typographic text still remains the most prevalent method of understanding abstract concepts, especially in industries where media rich training is too costly to produce. As a technical school, we face the challenge of preparing students for jobs that don't currently exist, using software that we know will be antiquated by the time they leave the university (assuming a four year stint). I cannot, at this moment, foresee an immediate future where one can avoid developing the skills to parse technology manuals and/or typographic web content.
It's for those reasons that I (and a number of my colleagues) are moving towards the model that Steve laid out in his final paragraph. We believe that the best way to make our students adaptable is to drill the core skills of typographic literacy (as well as the core skills that publishing production is based upon). I am working to come up with better ways to orient those skills in a larger media ecosystem. However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based.
- Matt
-- ----------------------------- Matthew Bernius New Media and Customer Intelligence Strategist for Hire mBernius@gMail.com http://www.waking-dream.com _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
From: Dr. Steve Eskow <drseskow@cox.net>
<<Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did latin for higher education.>>
This has become the new conventional wisdom, widely circulated and believed by "digital natives" and those who believe that the natives are a new breed with new nervous systems, visual learners, multitaskers, and so on. That is: text is the new Latin, a concern of mandarins and antiquarians, the world itself to be organized and run by the imagists and the visualists.
I think there's a common presumption, on the part of many, that this hasn't always-already been a problem that scholarship has tried to address. For a relatively recent riff on it (the problem, not the presumption..), I suggest this coverweb from Kairos: http://english.ttu.edu/kairos/10.1/coverweb/wide/index.html Literacy and medium concerns are a very, very old problem. --e
All: I am of the belief that the elite will keep books and printed words as a status symbol while educating the masses with digital means. This seems to be the direction that things are currently moving whether it is preferable or not. I am a believer in multiple mediums, methods and simulations/apprenticeships as teaching tools in every field. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Philiip Wasdaskey writes: <<Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did latin for higher education.>> This has become the new conventional wisdom, widely circulated and believed by "digital natives" and those who believe that the natives are a new breed with new nervous systems, visual learners, multitaskers, and so on. That is: text is the new Latin, a concern of mandarins and antiquarians, the world itself to be organized and run by the imagists and the visualists. What is going on, or should go, to engage with this clouded and uncertain vision before it takes control of schools and colleges and becomes offical intellectual doctrine? Steve Eskow --- Matthew Bernius <mbernius@gmail.com> wrote:
Textual and verbal literacy will retain their privileged positions as the key to positions of power and control in society, and as the heart
of knowledge work.
As the natives becomes increasingly digital they may also become increasingly image-oriented, and decreasingly print literate.
Education--schools and colleges--are assigned the task of providing the knowledge and skills the general culture fail to provide.
As visual imagery and audio become increasingly pervasive in the general culture, it will fall to the schools and colleges to provide the core skills of print literacy which the digital natives will not develop by immersion in the media.
What do you think?
Steve E.
For what it's worth, I think this is where exactly where things are moving. Though perhaps print literate isn't quite the right phrase. Typographically literate might work better (texts have too many possible connotations). What we are finding, ironically here at the School of Print Media, is a definite move away from the "willing" consumption of typographic texts (be they electronic or paper) by many
of our students. We've found that also corresponds with problems articulating arguments and concepts (be it orally or written).
The problem that I have with discussions of alternate learning modalities is that typographic text still remains the most prevalent method of understanding abstract concepts, especially in industries where media rich training is too costly to produce. As a technical school, we face the challenge of preparing students for jobs that don't currently exist, using software that we know will be antiquated by the time they leave the university (assuming a four year stint). I cannot, at this moment, foresee an immediate future where one can avoid developing the skills to parse technology manuals and/or typographic web content.
It's for those reasons that I (and a number of my colleagues) are moving towards the model that Steve laid out in his final paragraph. We believe that the best way to make our students adaptable is to drill the core skills of typographic literacy (as well as the core skills that publishing production is based upon). I am working to come up with better ways to orient those skills in a larger media ecosystem. However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based.
- Matt
-- ----------------------------- Matthew Bernius New Media and Customer Intelligence Strategist for Hire mBernius@gMail.com http://www.waking-dream.com _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Steve: This offline discussion has been posted per your request. I don't know what good it will do, but it seems to be in line with this previous post that I put up. I don't want to get busted again. Chris Chris, I wish you'd publish this message on the list, and I'll reply to it publicly: it's worth a discussion. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Heidelberg, Chris [mailto:Chris.Heidelberg@ssa.gov] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 12:59 PM To: drseskow@cox.net Subject: RE: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Steve: I have been actually thinking about this and talking to both my colleagues in academia and entertainment/arts and I think that physical book ownership will become the domain of the wealthy,powerful,intellectual and religious elite worldwide. Why? Because digital publishing can now be done cheaply on a global scale with print, audio and video through iTunes, Amazon, Microsoft, YouTube and many others worldwide. In fact,books may reclaim their Middle Ages appeal with elaborate bindings and high costs with autographs of the authors. Maybe I am cynical but I do not think the elite will give up the physical book. I think digital books have the potential to free authors from the outrageous publishing costs of big media conglomerates who engage in marketing and control as excuses not to publish certain people while publishing others of lesser talent. Chris -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Heidelberg, Chris Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:16 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org; drseskow@cox.net Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning All: I am of the belief that the elite will keep books and printed words as a status symbol while educating the masses with digital means. This seems to be the direction that things are currently moving whether it is preferable or not. I am a believer in multiple mediums, methods and simulations/apprenticeships as teaching tools in every field. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Philiip Wasdaskey writes: <<Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did latin for higher education.>> This has become the new conventional wisdom, widely circulated and believed by "digital natives" and those who believe that the natives are a new breed with new nervous systems, visual learners, multitaskers, and so on. That is: text is the new Latin, a concern of mandarins and antiquarians, the world itself to be organized and run by the imagists and the visualists. What is going on, or should go, to engage with this clouded and uncertain vision before it takes control of schools and colleges and becomes offical intellectual doctrine? Steve Eskow --- Matthew Bernius <mbernius@gmail.com> wrote:
Textual and verbal literacy will retain their privileged positions as the key to positions of power and control in society, and as the heart
of knowledge work.
As the natives becomes increasingly digital they may also become increasingly image-oriented, and decreasingly print literate.
Education--schools and colleges--are assigned the task of providing the knowledge and skills the general culture fail to provide.
As visual imagery and audio become increasingly pervasive in the general culture, it will fall to the schools and colleges to provide the core skills of print literacy which the digital natives will not develop by immersion in the media.
What do you think?
Steve E.
For what it's worth, I think this is where exactly where things are moving. Though perhaps print literate isn't quite the right phrase. Typographically literate might work better (texts have too many possible connotations). What we are finding, ironically here at the School of Print Media, is a definite move away from the "willing" consumption of typographic texts (be they electronic or paper) by many
of our students. We've found that also corresponds with problems articulating arguments and concepts (be it orally or written).
The problem that I have with discussions of alternate learning modalities is that typographic text still remains the most prevalent method of understanding abstract concepts, especially in industries where media rich training is too costly to produce. As a technical school, we face the challenge of preparing students for jobs that don't currently exist, using software that we know will be antiquated by the time they leave the university (assuming a four year stint). I cannot, at this moment, foresee an immediate future where one can avoid developing the skills to parse technology manuals and/or typographic web content.
It's for those reasons that I (and a number of my colleagues) are moving towards the model that Steve laid out in his final paragraph. We believe that the best way to make our students adaptable is to drill the core skills of typographic literacy (as well as the core skills that publishing production is based upon). I am working to come up with better ways to orient those skills in a larger media ecosystem. However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based.
- Matt
-- ----------------------------- Matthew Bernius New Media and Customer Intelligence Strategist for Hire mBernius@gMail.com http://www.waking-dream.com _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Books will become the next lucrative wine collection for many investors. By the way, the collection of books already is a major business for the wealthy, but digital publishing may take book collecting to a whole new level because of perceived and actual scarcity. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Heidelberg, Chris Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:21 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Steve: This offline discussion has been posted per your request. I don't know what good it will do, but it seems to be in line with this previous post that I put up. I don't want to get busted again. Chris Chris, I wish you'd publish this message on the list, and I'll reply to it publicly: it's worth a discussion. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Heidelberg, Chris [mailto:Chris.Heidelberg@ssa.gov] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 12:59 PM To: drseskow@cox.net Subject: RE: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Steve: I have been actually thinking about this and talking to both my colleagues in academia and entertainment/arts and I think that physical book ownership will become the domain of the wealthy,powerful,intellectual and religious elite worldwide. Why? Because digital publishing can now be done cheaply on a global scale with print, audio and video through iTunes, Amazon, Microsoft, YouTube and many others worldwide. In fact,books may reclaim their Middle Ages appeal with elaborate bindings and high costs with autographs of the authors. Maybe I am cynical but I do not think the elite will give up the physical book. I think digital books have the potential to free authors from the outrageous publishing costs of big media conglomerates who engage in marketing and control as excuses not to publish certain people while publishing others of lesser talent. Chris -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Heidelberg, Chris Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:16 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org; drseskow@cox.net Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning All: I am of the belief that the elite will keep books and printed words as a status symbol while educating the masses with digital means. This seems to be the direction that things are currently moving whether it is preferable or not. I am a believer in multiple mediums, methods and simulations/apprenticeships as teaching tools in every field. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Philiip Wasdaskey writes: <<Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did latin for higher education.>> This has become the new conventional wisdom, widely circulated and believed by "digital natives" and those who believe that the natives are a new breed with new nervous systems, visual learners, multitaskers, and so on. That is: text is the new Latin, a concern of mandarins and antiquarians, the world itself to be organized and run by the imagists and the visualists. What is going on, or should go, to engage with this clouded and uncertain vision before it takes control of schools and colleges and becomes offical intellectual doctrine? Steve Eskow --- Matthew Bernius <mbernius@gmail.com> wrote:
Textual and verbal literacy will retain their privileged positions as the key to positions of power and control in society, and as the heart
of knowledge work.
As the natives becomes increasingly digital they may also become increasingly image-oriented, and decreasingly print literate.
Education--schools and colleges--are assigned the task of providing the knowledge and skills the general culture fail to provide.
As visual imagery and audio become increasingly pervasive in the general culture, it will fall to the schools and colleges to provide the core skills of print literacy which the digital natives will not develop by immersion in the media.
What do you think?
Steve E.
For what it's worth, I think this is where exactly where things are moving. Though perhaps print literate isn't quite the right phrase. Typographically literate might work better (texts have too many possible connotations). What we are finding, ironically here at the School of Print Media, is a definite move away from the "willing" consumption of typographic texts (be they electronic or paper) by many
of our students. We've found that also corresponds with problems articulating arguments and concepts (be it orally or written).
The problem that I have with discussions of alternate learning modalities is that typographic text still remains the most prevalent method of understanding abstract concepts, especially in industries where media rich training is too costly to produce. As a technical school, we face the challenge of preparing students for jobs that don't currently exist, using software that we know will be antiquated by the time they leave the university (assuming a four year stint). I cannot, at this moment, foresee an immediate future where one can avoid developing the skills to parse technology manuals and/or typographic web content.
It's for those reasons that I (and a number of my colleagues) are moving towards the model that Steve laid out in his final paragraph. We believe that the best way to make our students adaptable is to drill the core skills of typographic literacy (as well as the core skills that publishing production is based upon). I am working to come up with better ways to orient those skills in a larger media ecosystem. However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based.
- Matt
-- ----------------------------- Matthew Bernius New Media and Customer Intelligence Strategist for Hire mBernius@gMail.com http://www.waking-dream.com _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Chris, Your message below "conflates" (the word I would use if I was submitting this for peer review) several important issues: elites and media, the fate of the "physical book," the control of intellectual property. And perhaps others. I'm particularly interested in learning more about the growing belief that new visual media mean that education ought to put less emphasis on developing what someone here calls "typographic literacy": what might be generalized as the production and the consumption of "writing," language turned into marks which make words, sentences, paragraphs, theses, argument. What we do on this list requires "typographic literacy." This list is about words. Chains of words, words now using this new medium to organize dialog over time and space. Blogs eems to be mostly to require typographic literacy, the ability to translate and create sentences and paragraphs. There's a book on my shelf title THE RISE OF THE IMAGE AND THE FALL OF THE WORD. Is that the shared belief of the multimedia people? The intellectuals on this list? There are several versions of my puzzlement, and my question. One is, will "digital natives" need for the educational system to pay more or less attention to "typographic literacy"? Steve Eskow Steve: I have been actually thinking about this and talking to both my colleagues in academia and entertainment/arts and I think that physical book ownership will become the domain of the wealthy,powerful,intellectual and religious elite worldwide. Why? Because digital publishing can now be done cheaply on a global scale with print, audio and video through iTunes, Amazon, Microsoft, YouTube and many others worldwide. In fact,books may reclaim their Middle Ages appeal with elaborate bindings and high costs with autographs of the authors. Maybe I am cynical but I do not think the elite will give up the physical book. I think digital books have the potential to free authors from the outrageous publishing costs of big media conglomerates who engage in marketing and control as excuses not to publish certain people while publishing others of lesser talent. Chris -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Heidelberg, Chris Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:16 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org; drseskow@cox.net Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning All: I am of the belief that the elite will keep books and printed words as a status symbol while educating the masses with digital means. This seems to be the direction that things are currently moving whether it is preferable or not. I am a believer in multiple mediums, methods and simulations/apprenticeships as teaching tools in every field. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Philiip Wasdaskey writes: <<Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did latin for higher education.>> This has become the new conventional wisdom, widely circulated and believed by "digital natives" and those who believe that the natives are a new breed with new nervous systems, visual learners, multitaskers, and so on. That is: text is the new Latin, a concern of mandarins and antiquarians, the world itself to be organized and run by the imagists and the visualists. What is going on, or should go, to engage with this clouded and uncertain vision before it takes control of schools and colleges and becomes offical intellectual doctrine? Steve Eskow --- Matthew Bernius <mbernius@gmail.com> wrote:
Textual and verbal literacy will retain their privileged positions as the key to positions of power and control in society, and as the heart
of knowledge work.
As the natives becomes increasingly digital they may also become increasingly image-oriented, and decreasingly print literate.
Education--schools and colleges--are assigned the task of providing the knowledge and skills the general culture fail to provide.
As visual imagery and audio become increasingly pervasive in the general culture, it will fall to the schools and colleges to provide the core skills of print literacy which the digital natives will not develop by immersion in the media.
What do you think?
Steve E.
For what it's worth, I think this is where exactly where things are moving. Though perhaps print literate isn't quite the right phrase. Typographically literate might work better (texts have too many possible connotations). What we are finding, ironically here at the School of Print Media, is a definite move away from the "willing" consumption of typographic texts (be they electronic or paper) by many
of our students. We've found that also corresponds with problems articulating arguments and concepts (be it orally or written).
The problem that I have with discussions of alternate learning modalities is that typographic text still remains the most prevalent method of understanding abstract concepts, especially in industries where media rich training is too costly to produce. As a technical school, we face the challenge of preparing students for jobs that don't currently exist, using software that we know will be antiquated by the time they leave the university (assuming a four year stint). I cannot, at this moment, foresee an immediate future where one can avoid developing the skills to parse technology manuals and/or typographic web content.
It's for those reasons that I (and a number of my colleagues) are moving towards the model that Steve laid out in his final paragraph. We believe that the best way to make our students adaptable is to drill the core skills of typographic literacy (as well as the core skills that publishing production is based upon). I am working to come up with better ways to orient those skills in a larger media ecosystem. However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based.
- Matt
-- ----------------------------- Matthew Bernius New Media and Customer Intelligence Strategist for Hire mBernius@gMail.com http://www.waking-dream.com _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Steve, I may be more digital native in mindset, but in my heart I am an immigrant because I believe in the power of the word. My thought is that the word is limited when the ability now exists to receive the message in its entirety in real time so that historians, spin doctors (which I have been), and other media types cannot manipulate what we see and hear more than they already do. My suggestion is that the word keeps its hallowed place, but that we also elevate the state of the visual and audio elements of a message. For example, most college students still learn by lecture with many visual elements (the board, computer screen, props etc.). If we are to communicate, let us do it with all of its full elegance and majesty. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:30 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Chris, Your message below "conflates" (the word I would use if I was submitting this for peer review) several important issues: elites and media, the fate of the "physical book," the control of intellectual property. And perhaps others. I'm particularly interested in learning more about the growing belief that new visual media mean that education ought to put less emphasis on developing what someone here calls "typographic literacy": what might be generalized as the production and the consumption of "writing," language turned into marks which make words, sentences, paragraphs, theses, argument. What we do on this list requires "typographic literacy." This list is about words. Chains of words, words now using this new medium to organize dialog over time and space. Blogs eems to be mostly to require typographic literacy, the ability to translate and create sentences and paragraphs. There's a book on my shelf title THE RISE OF THE IMAGE AND THE FALL OF THE WORD. Is that the shared belief of the multimedia people? The intellectuals on this list? There are several versions of my puzzlement, and my question. One is, will "digital natives" need for the educational system to pay more or less attention to "typographic literacy"? Steve Eskow Steve: I have been actually thinking about this and talking to both my colleagues in academia and entertainment/arts and I think that physical book ownership will become the domain of the wealthy,powerful,intellectual and religious elite worldwide. Why? Because digital publishing can now be done cheaply on a global scale with print, audio and video through iTunes, Amazon, Microsoft, YouTube and many others worldwide. In fact,books may reclaim their Middle Ages appeal with elaborate bindings and high costs with autographs of the authors. Maybe I am cynical but I do not think the elite will give up the physical book. I think digital books have the potential to free authors from the outrageous publishing costs of big media conglomerates who engage in marketing and control as excuses not to publish certain people while publishing others of lesser talent. Chris -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Heidelberg, Chris Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:16 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org; drseskow@cox.net Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning All: I am of the belief that the elite will keep books and printed words as a status symbol while educating the masses with digital means. This seems to be the direction that things are currently moving whether it is preferable or not. I am a believer in multiple mediums, methods and simulations/apprenticeships as teaching tools in every field. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Philiip Wasdaskey writes: <<Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did latin for higher education.>> This has become the new conventional wisdom, widely circulated and believed by "digital natives" and those who believe that the natives are a new breed with new nervous systems, visual learners, multitaskers, and so on. That is: text is the new Latin, a concern of mandarins and antiquarians, the world itself to be organized and run by the imagists and the visualists. What is going on, or should go, to engage with this clouded and uncertain vision before it takes control of schools and colleges and becomes offical intellectual doctrine? Steve Eskow --- Matthew Bernius <mbernius@gmail.com> wrote:
Textual and verbal literacy will retain their privileged positions as the key to positions of power and control in society, and as the heart
of knowledge work.
As the natives becomes increasingly digital they may also become increasingly image-oriented, and decreasingly print literate.
Education--schools and colleges--are assigned the task of providing the knowledge and skills the general culture fail to provide.
As visual imagery and audio become increasingly pervasive in the general culture, it will fall to the schools and colleges to provide the core skills of print literacy which the digital natives will not develop by immersion in the media.
What do you think?
Steve E.
For what it's worth, I think this is where exactly where things are moving. Though perhaps print literate isn't quite the right phrase. Typographically literate might work better (texts have too many possible connotations). What we are finding, ironically here at the School of Print Media, is a definite move away from the "willing" consumption of typographic texts (be they electronic or paper) by many
of our students. We've found that also corresponds with problems articulating arguments and concepts (be it orally or written).
The problem that I have with discussions of alternate learning modalities is that typographic text still remains the most prevalent method of understanding abstract concepts, especially in industries where media rich training is too costly to produce. As a technical school, we face the challenge of preparing students for jobs that don't currently exist, using software that we know will be antiquated by the time they leave the university (assuming a four year stint). I cannot, at this moment, foresee an immediate future where one can avoid developing the skills to parse technology manuals and/or typographic web content.
It's for those reasons that I (and a number of my colleagues) are moving towards the model that Steve laid out in his final paragraph. We believe that the best way to make our students adaptable is to drill the core skills of typographic literacy (as well as the core skills that publishing production is based upon). I am working to come up with better ways to orient those skills in a larger media ecosystem. However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based.
- Matt
-- ----------------------------- Matthew Bernius New Media and Customer Intelligence Strategist for Hire mBernius@gMail.com http://www.waking-dream.com _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Chris, << For example, most college students still learn by lecture with many visual elements (the board, computer screen, props etc.). If we are to communicate, let us do it with all of its full elegance and majesty.>> Here's a question, Chris. Is the medium that is the "lecture" shaped, organized by the space/time of the "lecture-hall? Or: is the basic organizing "medium" of the "lecture" the large room with many chairs or ranked rows of benches? Or: if we want to have Chris H "lecture with many visual elements" to 1000 students, do we have to ask them to leave their communities and everyday lives and come to this large room to hear and see and interact with him? Why? Steve Eskow -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:30 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Chris, Your message below "conflates" (the word I would use if I was submitting this for peer review) several important issues: elites and media, the fate of the "physical book," the control of intellectual property. And perhaps others. I'm particularly interested in learning more about the growing belief that new visual media mean that education ought to put less emphasis on developing what someone here calls "typographic literacy": what might be generalized as the production and the consumption of "writing," language turned into marks which make words, sentences, paragraphs, theses, argument. What we do on this list requires "typographic literacy." This list is about words. Chains of words, words now using this new medium to organize dialog over time and space. Blogs eems to be mostly to require typographic literacy, the ability to translate and create sentences and paragraphs. There's a book on my shelf title THE RISE OF THE IMAGE AND THE FALL OF THE WORD. Is that the shared belief of the multimedia people? The intellectuals on this list? There are several versions of my puzzlement, and my question. One is, will "digital natives" need for the educational system to pay more or less attention to "typographic literacy"? Steve Eskow Steve: I have been actually thinking about this and talking to both my colleagues in academia and entertainment/arts and I think that physical book ownership will become the domain of the wealthy,powerful,intellectual and religious elite worldwide. Why? Because digital publishing can now be done cheaply on a global scale with print, audio and video through iTunes, Amazon, Microsoft, YouTube and many others worldwide. In fact,books may reclaim their Middle Ages appeal with elaborate bindings and high costs with autographs of the authors. Maybe I am cynical but I do not think the elite will give up the physical book. I think digital books have the potential to free authors from the outrageous publishing costs of big media conglomerates who engage in marketing and control as excuses not to publish certain people while publishing others of lesser talent. Chris -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Heidelberg, Chris Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:16 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org; drseskow@cox.net Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning All: I am of the belief that the elite will keep books and printed words as a status symbol while educating the masses with digital means. This seems to be the direction that things are currently moving whether it is preferable or not. I am a believer in multiple mediums, methods and simulations/apprenticeships as teaching tools in every field. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Dr. Steve Eskow Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Technology Transforming Education--EE-Learning Philiip Wasdaskey writes: <<Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did latin for higher education.>> This has become the new conventional wisdom, widely circulated and believed by "digital natives" and those who believe that the natives are a new breed with new nervous systems, visual learners, multitaskers, and so on. That is: text is the new Latin, a concern of mandarins and antiquarians, the world itself to be organized and run by the imagists and the visualists. What is going on, or should go, to engage with this clouded and uncertain vision before it takes control of schools and colleges and becomes offical intellectual doctrine? Steve Eskow --- Matthew Bernius <mbernius@gmail.com> wrote:
Textual and verbal literacy will retain their privileged positions as the key to positions of power and control in society, and as the heart
of knowledge work.
As the natives becomes increasingly digital they may also become increasingly image-oriented, and decreasingly print literate.
Education--schools and colleges--are assigned the task of providing the knowledge and skills the general culture fail to provide.
As visual imagery and audio become increasingly pervasive in the general culture, it will fall to the schools and colleges to provide the core skills of print literacy which the digital natives will not develop by immersion in the media.
What do you think?
Steve E.
For what it's worth, I think this is where exactly where things are moving. Though perhaps print literate isn't quite the right phrase. Typographically literate might work better (texts have too many possible connotations). What we are finding, ironically here at the School of Print Media, is a definite move away from the "willing" consumption of typographic texts (be they electronic or paper) by many
of our students. We've found that also corresponds with problems articulating arguments and concepts (be it orally or written).
The problem that I have with discussions of alternate learning modalities is that typographic text still remains the most prevalent method of understanding abstract concepts, especially in industries where media rich training is too costly to produce. As a technical school, we face the challenge of preparing students for jobs that don't currently exist, using software that we know will be antiquated by the time they leave the university (assuming a four year stint). I cannot, at this moment, foresee an immediate future where one can avoid developing the skills to parse technology manuals and/or typographic web content.
It's for those reasons that I (and a number of my colleagues) are moving towards the model that Steve laid out in his final paragraph. We believe that the best way to make our students adaptable is to drill the core skills of typographic literacy (as well as the core skills that publishing production is based upon). I am working to come up with better ways to orient those skills in a larger media ecosystem. However, retrograde as it may sound, we believe that typographic literacy, and the skills that are developed through the study of it, are the foundation on which success will be based.
- Matt
-- ----------------------------- Matthew Bernius New Media and Customer Intelligence Strategist for Hire mBernius@gMail.com http://www.waking-dream.com _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Chris, <<I am of the belief that the elite will keep books and printed words as a status symbol while educating the masses with digital means. This seems to be the direction that things are currently moving whether it is preferable or not. I am a believer in multiple mediums, methods and simulations/apprenticeships as teaching tools in every field. >> You and I and all of us on this list are using "printed words," and only printed words, to do our communicating. Is that because we are academics and "printed words" are the status symbol of the academy? Or is there some other reason? Would our communication here be enriched if we added "multiple mediums"? If so, why don't we add them? Steve Eskow
Steve ponders: "all of us on this list are using "printed words," and only printed words, to do our communicating. Is that because we are academics and "printed words" are the status symbol of the academy? Or is there some other reason?" Charlie replies: Oddly, given that this a discussion hosted by AOIR, I *only* use words because that is all this list allows. I can play a bit with text but ASCII is limited. Content constrained Loss through a lens of just text No picture, no sound Maybe all we need is text for these kind of discussions but here's an interesting link on art with video/audio content that I ran across this morning that I don't think could be replicated with just text. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs MMM88&&&, ,MMM8&&&. `'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&& 'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&& MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&& MMMMM88&&&& MMM88&&& 'MMM8&&&' MMMM888&&&& 'MM88&&& MMMM88&&&&& MM88&&& MMMM88&&&&& MM88&&& ,MMM8&&&. MM88&&& MMMMM88&&&& ,MM88&&& MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&& MMM88&&&' 'MMM8&&&' MMM88&&&' MMM88&&&' Grin copied from http://www.asciiworld.com/smiley.html
Charlie, <<Maybe all we need is text for these kind of discussions but here's an interesting link on art with video/audio content that I ran across this morning that I don't think could be replicated with just text. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs >> I enjoyed the YouTube experience greatly, and was moved by it, and learned something from it, I think. However: in order for me to ask you, "What does the brilliant video/audio experience "mean"?" I have to use words. (I think). In order for you to be my teacher and respond to my request for help, you will use words, although you might try to find an image or an audio or video stream that would help me. "These kinds of discussions" are, I think, pedagogic discussions: we try to learn from our engagements with each other. Hypothesis: we don't use sound and images for this kind of dialog, this kind of teaching/learning, because they are essnetially secondary, supportive, and not central to the work of teaching/learning. I think at this moment, subject to swift change. Steve Eskow MMM88&&&, ,MMM8&&&. `'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&& 'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&& MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&& MMMMM88&&&& MMM88&&& 'MMM8&&&' MMMM888&&&& 'MM88&&& MMMM88&&&&& MM88&&& MMMM88&&&&& MM88&&& ,MMM8&&&. MM88&&& MMMMM88&&&& ,MM88&&& MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&& MMM88&&&' 'MMM8&&&' MMM88&&&' MMM88&&&' Grin copied from http://www.asciiworld.com/smiley.html
Steve E writ: "These kinds of discussions" are, I think, pedagogic discussions: we try to learn from our engagements with each other. Hypothesis: we don't use sound and images for this kind of dialog, this kind of teaching/learning, because they are essnetially secondary, supportive, and not central to the work of teaching/learning. Charlie B: Text is not the only way to have a pedagogic discussion. Both icons and text can have huge impact. Our understandings are not internalized just in text and thus instruction should include a variety modalities. I'm reminded of the quote "When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." I can bang away on lots of things with just text but there are circumstances where there are better tools than text. At the risk of distracting from my points above, this is the American list of Internet Researchers. How come all of our text is in US English? The USA is not the only country in America. Charlie Balch
Charles: The You Tube piece helps to make my point. We saw everything that we needed to see. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Charles Balch Ph.D. Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 3:29 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org; drseskow@cox.net Subject: Re: [Air-l] Why Am I Only Communicating with Text? Steve ponders: "all of us on this list are using "printed words," and only printed words, to do our communicating. Is that because we are academics and "printed words" are the status symbol of the academy? Or is there some other reason?" Charlie replies: Oddly, given that this a discussion hosted by AOIR, I *only* use words because that is all this list allows. I can play a bit with text but ASCII is limited. Content constrained Loss through a lens of just text No picture, no sound Maybe all we need is text for these kind of discussions but here's an interesting link on art with video/audio content that I ran across this morning that I don't think could be replicated with just text. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs MMM88&&&, ,MMM8&&&. `'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&& 'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&& MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&& MMMMM88&&&& MMM88&&& 'MMM8&&&' MMMM888&&&& 'MM88&&& MMMM88&&&&& MM88&&& MMMM88&&&&& MM88&&& ,MMM8&&&. MM88&&& MMMMM88&&&& ,MM88&&& MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&& MMM88&&&' 'MMM8&&&' MMM88&&&' MMM88&&&' Grin copied from http://www.asciiworld.com/smiley.html _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Charles: <<The You Tube piece helps to make my point. We saw everything that we needed to see. >> Your saying this makes the other point: you're saying it in words, not images. Can you really find or create an image that you might send us that would tell us "We saw everything we needed to see." Bet you can't do it. Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Charles Balch Ph.D. Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 3:29 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org; drseskow@cox.net Subject: Re: [Air-l] Why Am I Only Communicating with Text? Steve ponders: "all of us on this list are using "printed words," and only printed words, to do our communicating. Is that because we are academics and "printed words" are the status symbol of the academy? Or is there some other reason?" Charlie replies: Oddly, given that this a discussion hosted by AOIR, I *only* use words because that is all this list allows. I can play a bit with text but ASCII is limited. Content constrained Loss through a lens of just text No picture, no sound Maybe all we need is text for these kind of discussions but here's an interesting link on art with video/audio content that I ran across this morning that I don't think could be replicated with just text. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs MMM88&&&, ,MMM8&&&. `'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&& 'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&&, MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&& MMMMM88&&&&&& 'MMM88&&& MMMMM88&&&& MMM88&&& 'MMM8&&&' MMMM888&&&& 'MM88&&& MMMM88&&&&& MM88&&& MMMM88&&&&& MM88&&& ,MMM8&&&. MM88&&& MMMMM88&&&& ,MM88&&& MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&&&& MMM88&&&' MMMMM88&&&& MMM88&&&' 'MMM8&&&' MMM88&&&' MMM88&&&' Grin copied from http://www.asciiworld.com/smiley.html _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
On 5/25/07, Dr. Steve Eskow <drseskow@cox.net> wrote:
Your saying this makes the other point: you're saying it in words, not images. Can you really find or create an image that you might send us that would tell us
"We saw everything we needed to see."
I must be misunderstanding because you seem to be rejecting the notion of non-verbal communication or asserting the unquestioned dominance of verbal communication over non-verbal. This entire line of thought seems both non-sensical and elitist. I think too highly of you and the other members of this group so I must be misunderstanding; I'd appreciate any help you can offer in clearing up my misunderstanding! Kevin
Three key concepts in this thread are these: Media is the fourth R for arts. Text may remain important much as did Latin for higher education. You and I and all of us on this list are using "printed words," and only printed words, to do our communicating. Does that not mean that electronic paper will eventually change everything? Nope. But as Steve has already pointed out, that's still going to use typographic characters to facilitate communication. My comment: My students all text on their cell phones; they share music on their computers and iPods, they Facebook and instant message and YouTube . None of these media have any long term storage. This era will have no history. 100 years from now there will be nothing to examine, no trace of what the content was. In a bureau drawer, I have the love letters my mother sent to my father in the 1930's - paper, envelopes, stamps. These are records. They are the raw material of history. They endure until someone burns them or tosses them on a landfill. In 2000, a local government building asked for contents to put in a time capsule. I recorded an hour of my radio show and put it on a CD and sent it over (along with a disk full of other stuff off my HD - novels, pictures, resumes.. ) The day it was sealed, there was a news item from Colorado where a time capsule was OPENED had been sealed in 1900. Among the junk in the capsule was a gold foil cylinder recording How do you play a gold foil cylinder?? They called the Smithsonian and eventually got Edison's original cylinder recorder so they could play the thing. Makes me wonder in 2100 if anyone will be able to play my CD in my local time capsule. Makes me wonder if anyone will be able to read my kids Instant messages - next week, next month. They evaporate. When the first word processors appeared in the 1970's I said "This will raise the stakes on excellence, cause anyone can take stupid ideas and make them look good, so looking good will not be enough to identify good writing." I submit the printed word will always be with us, but you are correct that the premium on caliber is rising. Xlibris and Print on demand publishing means that ANYTHING can get into abound volume. The worth of excellent material rises when there are tons of junk in print. Alex Randall Professor of Communication Univ of the Virgin Islands Alex@islands.vi www.water-island.com
The whole argument about text vs graphic or non verbal communication revolves around what media does to mind. Like every complicated question, there are many tributaries of the main river. Marshall McLuhan explores this question in great detail in The Gutenburg Galaxy which examines how western humanity became type dominated and in Understanding Media which explores electric or hot and cold media as he calls it. Both reads are dense and difficult but essential to this question, IMHO. They are not dated at all!! Norman
Steve E writes: Can you really find or create an image that you might send us that would tell us "We saw everything we needed to see." Bet you can't do it. ---- Charlie B replies: Beyond the obvious that I can't send images to this list to meet your challenge, could it be that most every piece of artwork is incomplete as the artist failed to do their work in text? The Internet provides delivery of a lot more than text. I'm not suggesting that *all* the communication of the American Association of Internet Researchers should be hieroglyphic or any other media format (including text) but I suggest we should be open to a variety of media. It is interesting that creators of text are often called authors while creators of other media are called artists. I'd like to be both author and artist. Only authors are allowed at AOIR... Every communication channel has unique and exciting possibilities, interesting pitfalls, and reception requirements. If members can't receive a picture, I'd like to know why. Perhaps there are other reasons that our communication should be constrained. Beware of geeks bearing gifs. <GRIN>
Beyond the obvious that I can't send images to this list to meet your challenge, could it be that most every piece of artwork is incomplete as the artist failed to do their work in text? But you could create the image and send a link to the image to the list.............
Yes. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Constantine, Norman Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 1:07 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] Why Am I Only Communicating with Text? Beyond the obvious that I can't send images to this list to meet your challenge, could it be that most every piece of artwork is incomplete as the artist failed to do their work in text? But you could create the image and send a link to the image to the list.............
At 12:15 AM 27/05/2007, you wrote:
Steve E writes: Can you really find or create an image that you might send us that would tell us "We saw everything we needed to see."
Bet you can't do it.
---- Charlie B replies: Beyond the obvious that I can't send images to this list to meet your challenge, could it be that most every piece of artwork is incomplete as the artist failed to do their work in text?
Saying "everything" is most likely impossible goal, especially that "what we need to know" changes. Empty spaces contribute to the aesthetic and message of a creative work. Japanese aesthetic is an obvious example. Another example of a different sort are films based on books. Unless films do something completely different, most of the time I prefer that they didn't show what novels left to imagination. If the medium is the message, the question is how we can learn and teach to communicate with existing media.
It is interesting that creators of text are often called authors while creators of other media are called artists. I'd like to be both author and artist. Only authors are allowed at AOIR...
Are they? If authors are people who write text, we can ask what sort of text. Can academics be artists? Is it possible or acceptable to produce academic/creative work?
At the risk of distracting from my points above, this is the American list of Internet Researchers. How come all of our text is in US English? The USA is not the only country in America.
I thought AoIR is an international organisation. Best, Suzana
At the risk of distracting from my points above, this is the American list of Internet Researchers. How come all of our text is in US English? The USA is not the only country in America.
We have been through this many many times. Search the archives for "English as a Language for International Communication" if you want to read the previous discussion. There is no language restriction or policy on Air-L. Subscribers are free to post in any language they choose. Three of our eight conferences have been (or will be) held in the United States. The other 5 were/will be located in Canada, England, the Netherlands, and Australia. At this point we do not anticipate that next year's conference will meet in the US. We are all aware that the US is neither the only country in America nor the only country in which internet research is conducted. There is no need to point that out. Many people on this list are not from the US. Many people who come to the conferences are not from the US. Many members of the executive committee past and present are not from the US. I would argue that this association has done a great deal to facilitate the exchange of internet research across international boundaries since its inception. Why is most text on this list in English? Because most people on this list recognize that for better or worse, English is the one language we all understand. However, if anyone wants to post in other languages, go for it. No one's going to stop the messages from going through. Suely Fragoso started a parallel AoIR list meant to be trilingual (Portuguese and Spanish as well as English). I am not sure how that list is going (Suely? Others?). So please, before going off on yet another rant/distraction about the Americanness of this Association make an itty bitty effort to get facts and history straight. Can we pretty please talk about internet research for a while? That'd be really cool. Nancy
Nancy Baym wrote:
However, if anyone wants to post in other languages, go for it. No one's going to stop the messages from going through.
Nesse caso, dê boas-vindas a todos. Eu quero fazer exame deste momento para embrace todas nossos irmãos e irmãs do esperanto, e para dizer que eu olho para a frente às apresentações da conferência em sua lingüeta nativa. (A brief welcome to our Esperanto brothers and sisters, translated by babelfish into Portugese.)
So please, before going off on yet another rant/distraction about the Americanness of this Association make an itty bitty effort to get facts and history straight.
I'd like to nominate the McDonald's Big Mac as this year's recipient of the AoIR sandwich of the year award, please. -eg
So please, before going off on yet another rant/distraction about the Americanness of this Association make an itty bitty effort to get facts and history straight.
I'd like to nominate the McDonald's Big Mac as this year's recipient of the AoIR sandwich of the year award, please. Can we talk about something else please? Pouvons-nous parler d'autre chose svp ? Mozemo li da pricamo o necem drugom, molim vas? Possiamo parlare prego del qualcos'altro?
Also from Babel Fish, which inserts English words into Russian translation, which now makes me wonder what's the latest with automatic translation on the Internet... Here is a nice site to play with designs and translations: http://www.mezzoblue.com/zengarden/alldesigns/ Which links us ever so nicely to the question about research and creativity:) Suzana
participants (12)
-
Alex Randall -
Charles Balch Ph.D. -
Constantine, Norman -
Dr. Steve Eskow -
Ellis Godard -
elw＠stderr.org -
Heidelberg, Chris -
Kevin Guidry -
Matthew Bernius -
Nancy Baym -
Philip Wazdatskey -
Suzana Sukovic