Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Dear Gil, But what is the case if a website specifies that no reproduction of the website or its content may be used without permission? As researchers are we still legally bound to ask permission? Kind regards Philippa
"Gilbert B. Rodman" <gbrodman@mindspring.com> 09/02/10 11:29 AM >>> Two quick comments here, both AGAINST the notion that André necessarily has to ask for permission to use the images in question.
First, "fair use" arguably disappears -- in specific cases, if not as a whole -- the moment you ask for permission. At the very least, asking for permission potentially prevents you from asserting "fair use" later (which you might still want to do if, for example, your request isn't answered in a timely fashion), since it demonstrates that you don't believe your quotation of the material qualifies as "fair use." Second, "fair use" isn't simply some technical quirk in US copyright law that allows scholars to get away with what is otherwise morally questionable activity. It is arguably one of the basic rights that enables us -- along with journalists, reviewers, critics, and a vast range of other cultural commentators -- to do our jobs. I'm willing to bet that the publisher André is dealing with is NOT making him secure permission every time he quotes printed texts. He undoubtedly needs to attribute such quotes properly, and there are likely to be restrictions on how much of a source he can quote ... but "fair use" is what allows scholars to quote words written by other people (and reviewers to quote bits of books, songs, plays, movies, etc.) in the ordinary practices of research, criticism, and commentary without having to formally granted permission to do so. Put a different way, "fair use" is one of the major things that keeps copyright holders from using charges of "infringement" as a backhanded means of controlling public commentary about the works in question. cheers gil On 09/01/2010 05:16 PM, Brian Holland wrote:
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed.
- Brian
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!).
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome.
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith<philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse& Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM>>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive sasking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
The law presumably requires more than a simple assertion of such rights to make such a claim legally binding. Or enforceable. I could assert that no one else has permission to reproduce the words I'm typing now -- and then try to sue anyone on the listserv who quotes them in their response (or who copies this email into a new folder, or who backs up the hard drive where they're storing air-l emails, etc.) -- but I doubt there's a court in the world where I could win such a suit. cheers gil On 09/01/2010 07:28 PM, Philippa Smith wrote:
Dear Gil,
But what is the case if a website specifies that no reproduction of the website or its content may be used without permission? As researchers are we still legally bound to ask permission?
Kind regards
Philippa
"Gilbert B. Rodman"<gbrodman@mindspring.com> 09/02/10 11:29 AM>>> Two quick comments here, both AGAINST the notion that André necessarily has to ask for permission to use the images in question.
First, "fair use" arguably disappears -- in specific cases, if not as a whole -- the moment you ask for permission. At the very least, asking for permission potentially prevents you from asserting "fair use" later (which you might still want to do if, for example, your request isn't answered in a timely fashion), since it demonstrates that you don't believe your quotation of the material qualifies as "fair use."
Second, "fair use" isn't simply some technical quirk in US copyright law
that allows scholars to get away with what is otherwise morally questionable activity. It is arguably one of the basic rights that enables us -- along with journalists, reviewers, critics, and a vast range of other cultural commentators -- to do our jobs. I'm willing to bet that the publisher André is dealing with is NOT making him secure permission every time he quotes printed texts. He undoubtedly needs to attribute such quotes properly, and there are likely to be restrictions on how much of a source he can quote ... but "fair use" is what allows scholars to quote words written by other people (and reviewers to quote bits of books, songs, plays, movies, etc.) in the ordinary practices of research, criticism, and commentary without having to formally granted permission to do so. Put a different way, "fair use" is one of the major things that keeps copyright holders from using charges of "infringement" as a backhanded means of controlling public commentary about the works in question.
cheers gil
On 09/01/2010 05:16 PM, Brian Holland wrote:
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed. - Brian
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!).
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome.
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith<philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse& Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM>>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them. Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive sasking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Hi Philippa and others, I can answer within the Australian context, that when resources are required for publication ie books, journals, etc; we do need to contact copyright owners for publication. Our "fair dealing" clause can be invoked for research and study and to a certain extent when presenting at conference ie for review, etc. It would seem that researchers would have to ask for permission. If you can't get it for whatever reason, then alternative websites may have to be sourced. Does that sound pedantic? Cheers, WL On 02/09/2010, at 10:28 AM, Philippa Smith wrote:
Dear Gil,
But what is the case if a website specifies that no reproduction of the website or its content may be used without permission? As researchers are we still legally bound to ask permission?
Kind regards
Philippa
"Gilbert B. Rodman" <gbrodman@mindspring.com> 09/02/10 11:29 AM >>> Two quick comments here, both AGAINST the notion that André necessarily has to ask for permission to use the images in question.
First, "fair use" arguably disappears -- in specific cases, if not as a whole -- the moment you ask for permission. At the very least, asking for permission potentially prevents you from asserting "fair use" later (which you might still want to do if, for example, your request isn't answered in a timely fashion), since it demonstrates that you don't believe your quotation of the material qualifies as "fair use."
Second, "fair use" isn't simply some technical quirk in US copyright law
that allows scholars to get away with what is otherwise morally questionable activity. It is arguably one of the basic rights that enables us -- along with journalists, reviewers, critics, and a vast range of other cultural commentators -- to do our jobs. I'm willing to bet that the publisher André is dealing with is NOT making him secure permission every time he quotes printed texts. He undoubtedly needs to attribute such quotes properly, and there are likely to be restrictions on how much of a source he can quote ... but "fair use" is what allows scholars to quote words written by other people (and reviewers to quote bits of books, songs, plays, movies, etc.) in the ordinary practices of research, criticism, and commentary without having to formally granted permission to do so. Put a different way, "fair use" is one of the major things that keeps copyright holders from using charges of "infringement" as a backhanded means of controlling public commentary about the works in question.
cheers gil
On 09/01/2010 05:16 PM, Brian Holland wrote:
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed.
- Brian
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!).
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome.
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith<philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse& Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM>>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive sasking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
participants (3)
-
Gilbert B. Rodman -
Philippa Smith -
WL Wong