Web Science a Field of Study
(for those who havent' heard yet.......rf) The Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of Southampton in Britain plan to announce today that they are starting a joint research program in Web science. Tim Berners-Lee, who invented the Web¹s basic software, is leading the program. An Oxford-educated Englishman, Mr. Berners-Lee is a senior researcher at M.I.T., a professor at the University of Southampton and the director of the World Wide Web Consortium, an Internet standards-setting organization. Web science, the researchers say, has social and engineering dimensions. It extends well beyond traditional computer science, they say, to include the emerging research in social networks and the social sciences that is being used to study how people behave on the Web. And Web science, they add, shifts the center of gravity in engineering research from how a single computer works to how huge decentralized Web systems work. < - > NY Times http://tinyurl.com/tkxgf
Subject: [Air-l] Web Science a Field of Study
Web science, the researchers say, has social and engineering dimensions. It extends well beyond traditional computer science, they say, to include the emerging research in social networks and the social sciences that is being used to study how people behave on the Web. And Web science, they add, shifts the center of gravity in engineering research from how a single computer works to how huge decentralized Web systems work.
I find this patently absurd. Attempting to name something doesn't create a new field of study. New paradigms are rooted in established fields. Sociologists, linguists, information scientists, and others are all doing groundbreaking work in just the area that TBL is "inventing". This looks more like an attempt to grab publicity and credibility on the part of TBL and MIT. Embarassing, to be sure. Incidentally, I don't see a whole lot of research from TBL these days, on *any* of the lists I participate in where people care about networks, the internet, or the web... or people's use of any of them. --elijah
elijah, This sounds like something that Lachlan Brown might have written. Are you serious or just trolling? Since you are the expert on "Trolling" how would you analyze your remarks? Pax Electronica, Sam elw@stderr.org wrote: I find this patently absurd. Attempting to name something doesn't create a new field of study. New paradigms are rooted in established fields. Sociologists, linguists, information scientists, and others are all doing groundbreaking work in just the area that TBL is "inventing". This looks more like an attempt to grab publicity and credibility on the part of TBL and MIT. Embarassing, to be sure. Incidentally, I don't see a whole lot of research from TBL these days, on *any* of the lists I participate in where people care about networks, the internet, or the web... or people's use of any of them. --elijah _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ --------------------------------- Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
Having initiated the recent discussion about a definition for the term "Internet", I have contiued to search for a dispositive understaning. Tim Berners Lee has provided me with some clarity. "The web itself should be independent of the social... the first order, it should be not an institution but a completely blank piece of paper, a medium upon which society can do what it needs to do and what it wants to do." TBL Lydon, C. (2004). Christopher Lydon interviews... Checking in with the inventor: Tim Berners-Lee. Retrieved November 6, 2006, from http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/lydon/2004/01/09; in-line link to audio interview file at http://media.skybuilders.com/lydon/Berners-Lee.1.mp3. From a research or scholarly point of view nothing is lost by seperating the technology from what human behavior is conducted using the technology. In some respects TBL is saying that the Internet is a blackboard on which great things are created. It is our job as scholars to bring illumination to how it is used. It is unnecessary to disparage the contribution of TBL past or present to express disagreement. Whatever his motive and whenever it occured TBL has more stature than the bulk of us and comments below do not show collegiality and cross-disciplinarity to the world community. I remind you all that Elijah has a habit of calling people names and discrediting them. Do the rules and the interests of us all not apply to flaming someone who is not a part of this body. In my opinion TBL has it right. He should know because he single handed gave us a gift of the world we are supposed to be researching Sam elw@stderr.org wrote:
Subject: [Air-l] Web Science a Field of Study
Web science, the researchers say, has social and engineering dimensions. It extends well beyond traditional computer science, they say, to include the emerging research in social networks and the social sciences that is being used to study how people behave on the Web. And Web science, they add, shifts the center of gravity in engineering research from how a single computer works to how huge decentralized Web systems work.
I find this patently absurd. Attempting to name something doesn't create a new field of study. New paradigms are rooted in established fields. Sociologists, linguists, information scientists, and others are all doing groundbreaking work in just the area that TBL is "inventing". This looks more like an attempt to grab publicity and credibility on the part of TBL and MIT. Embarassing, to be sure. Incidentally, I don't see a whole lot of research from TBL these days, on *any* of the lists I participate in where people care about networks, the internet, or the web... or people's use of any of them. --elijah _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
"The web itself should be independent of the social... the first order, it should be not an institution but a completely blank piece of paper, a medium upon which society can do what it needs to do and what it wants to do." TBL
this is a normative claim not a factual claim.
From a research or scholarly point of view nothing is lost by seperating the technology from what human behavior is conducted using the technology. In some respects TBL is saying that the Internet is a blackboard on which great things are created. It is our job as scholars to bring illumination to how it is used.
This would be a false claim, as it universalizes one somewhat rarely accepted viewpoint. From a scholarly point of view, indeed from most scholarly points of view, many things are lost by claiming separation between technics and civilization. In fact, what is lost upon separation is most of the explanatory power...
It is unnecessary to disparage the contribution of TBL past or present to express disagreement. Whatever his motive and whenever it occured TBL has more stature than the bulk of us and comments below do not show collegiality and cross-disciplinarity to the world community.
i think you will find that appeal to expertise is a common rhetorical strategy and the way you actually use it above might even be called a common fallacy.
I remind you all that Elijah has a habit of calling people names and discrediting them. Do the rules and the interests of us all not apply to flaming someone who is not a part of this body.
Personally, i did not see him flame you, but I am beginning to suspect that you might be someone acting under a pseudonym, which is clearly against the list rules. Do you have a vita or other way of verifying your identity that you could share? What I did see him do was call to task MIT's perpetual claim to being the first, which seems to be part of their marketing regime... Take someone else's major idea that has been happening for many years, then claim you are doing something new... They tend to do this, many people realize it and it should always be questioned and critiqued as it perpetuates their own internal mythos and implicitly devalues the work of groups outside of MIT who actually originate the work they later claim. For instance, who else remembers UCLA's courseware project?
In my opinion TBL has it right. He should know because he single handed gave us a gift of the world we are supposed to be researching
That is a false statement, please learn the history of the web, it was created by several teams of people, of which TBL was a significant figure in one. (well, your opinion is your opinion, the rest is false)
have a nice day Jeremy Hunsinger School of Library and Information Science Pratt Institute () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments http://www.aoir.org The Association of Internet Researchers http://www.stswiki.org/ stswiki http://cfp.learning-inquiry.info/ LI-the journal http://transdisciplinarystudies.tmttlt.com/ Transdisciplinary Studies:the book series
Jeremy, Nice try Jeremy, but I won't bite. I appreciate your point of view. Thanks for the correction. Sam Jeremy Hunsinger <jhuns@vt.edu> wrote:
"The web itself should be independent of the social... the first order, it should be not an institution but a completely blank piece of paper, a medium upon which society can do what it needs to do and what it wants to do." TBL
this is a normative claim not a factual claim.
From a research or scholarly point of view nothing is lost by seperating the technology from what human behavior is conducted using the technology. In some respects TBL is saying that the Internet is a blackboard on which great things are created. It is our job as scholars to bring illumination to how it is used.
This would be a false claim, as it universalizes one somewhat rarely accepted viewpoint. From a scholarly point of view, indeed from most scholarly points of view, many things are lost by claiming separation between technics and civilization. In fact, what is lost upon separation is most of the explanatory power...
It is unnecessary to disparage the contribution of TBL past or present to express disagreement. Whatever his motive and whenever it occured TBL has more stature than the bulk of us and comments below do not show collegiality and cross-disciplinarity to the world community.
i think you will find that appeal to expertise is a common rhetorical strategy and the way you actually use it above might even be called a common fallacy.
I remind you all that Elijah has a habit of calling people names and discrediting them. Do the rules and the interests of us all not apply to flaming someone who is not a part of this body.
Personally, i did not see him flame you, but I am beginning to suspect that you might be someone acting under a pseudonym, which is clearly against the list rules. Do you have a vita or other way of verifying your identity that you could share? What I did see him do was call to task MIT's perpetual claim to being the first, which seems to be part of their marketing regime... Take someone else's major idea that has been happening for many years, then claim you are doing something new... They tend to do this, many people realize it and it should always be questioned and critiqued as it perpetuates their own internal mythos and implicitly devalues the work of groups outside of MIT who actually originate the work they later claim. For instance, who else remembers UCLA's courseware project?
In my opinion TBL has it right. He should know because he single handed gave us a gift of the world we are supposed to be researching
That is a false statement, please learn the history of the web, it was created by several teams of people, of which TBL was a significant figure in one. (well, your opinion is your opinion, the rest is false)
have a nice day Jeremy Hunsinger School of Library and Information Science Pratt Institute () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments http://www.aoir.org The Association of Internet Researchers http://www.stswiki.org/ stswiki http://cfp.learning-inquiry.info/ LI-the journal http://transdisciplinarystudies.tmttlt.com/ Transdisciplinary Studies:the book series _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
bite what sam? there was nothing to argue with. please provide identifying information to the association, thanks. On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Sam Tilden wrote:
Jeremy,
Nice try Jeremy, but I won't bite. I appreciate your point of view. Thanks for the correction.
Sam
jeremy hunsinger Assistant Professor Pratt Institute www.cddc.vt.edu wiki.tmttlt.com www.tmttlt.com () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments http://www.stswiki.org/ sts wiki http://cfp.learning-inquiry.info/ Learning Inquiry-the journal http://transdisciplinarystudies.tmttlt.com/ Transdisciplinary Studies:the book series
I won't respond to your false accusation. Nor will I let you bait me. I yeild to your superior authority in petaphysics. Sam Jeremy Hunsinger <jhuns@vt.edu> wrote: bite what sam? there was nothing to argue with. please provide identifying information to the association, thanks. On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Sam Tilden wrote:
Jeremy,
Nice try Jeremy, but I won't bite. I appreciate your point of view. Thanks for the correction.
Sam
jeremy hunsinger Assistant Professor Pratt Institute www.cddc.vt.edu wiki.tmttlt.com www.tmttlt.com () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments http://www.stswiki.org/ sts wiki http://cfp.learning-inquiry.info/ Learning Inquiry-the journal http://transdisciplinarystudies.tmttlt.com/ Transdisciplinary Studies:the book series _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ --------------------------------- Sponsored Link $200,000 mortgage for $660/mo - 30/15 yr fixed, reduce debt, home equity - Click now for info
In 1991, Tim Berners-Lee was the first to develop a network-based implementation of the hypertext concept. This was after Berners-Lee had repeatedly proposed his idea to the hypertext and Internet communities at various conferences to no avail - no one would implement it for him. Working at CERN, Berners-Lee wanted a way to share information about their research. By releasing his implementation to public use, he ensured the technology would become widespread. Jeremy Hunsinger <jhuns@vt.edu> wrote: bite what sam? there was nothing to argue with. please provide identifying information to the association, thanks. On Nov 6, 2006, at 4:57 PM, Sam Tilden wrote:
Jeremy,
Nice try Jeremy, but I won't bite. I appreciate your point of view. Thanks for the correction.
Sam
jeremy hunsinger Assistant Professor Pratt Institute www.cddc.vt.edu wiki.tmttlt.com www.tmttlt.com () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments http://www.stswiki.org/ sts wiki http://cfp.learning-inquiry.info/ Learning Inquiry-the journal http://transdisciplinarystudies.tmttlt.com/ Transdisciplinary Studies:the book series _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ --------------------------------- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
If anybody has anything that refutes this information I would certainly be interested. http://info.cern.ch/ http://info.cern.ch/Proposal.html http://www.w3.org/History/1989/proposal.html Sam --------------------------------- Sponsored Link Get a free Motorola Razr! Today Only! Choose Cingular, Sprint, Verizon, Alltel, or T-Mobile.
Please forgive me for sending this out of sync; I had an error with my email setup which led to me replying to the list from the wrong address. I don't think anyone (Berners-Lee included!) would suggest that: On 6 Nov 2006, at 20:56, Sam Tilden wrote:
He should know because he single handed gave us a gift of the world we are supposed to be researching
I think we know enough by now (whether from a social-shaping-of-technology base [1] or indeed from one of the excellent Web histories [2]) to drop the idea of the deus ex machina meets Eureka model of studying the Internet! This is not to criticise TBL in any way - he is certainly an important figure and his writings are useful - but it is work *in context* that interests academic researchers, right? Daithí [1] e.g. Carolyn Marvin's "When Old Technologies Were New" (1988) gives lots of examples, backed up with sources, that assist in understanding how popular understandings of discovery and adoption are flawed. [2] e.g. James Gillies & Robert Caillau "How The Web Was Born" (2000) is the history I relied upon the most in past studies. -- Daithí Mac Síthigh School of Law Trinity College Dublin 2 Ireland school: www.tcd.ie/law blog: www.lexferenda.com sms/tel: +353 86 8193881
just a little tale. we were working with TBL on a WAIS-WWW gateway in 1991. We had not met at the time but were working via email and ftp. TBL wrote that he had submitted a paper to Hypertext 91 to be held in San Antonio, TX late in the year. He'd drop by on his way. Later he wrote that his paper had been rejected. His ideas about hypertext weren't sophistocated enough for the reviewers. They did offer him the chance to do a demo or a poster. He came to the US and did drop by. I had, and still have a NeXT so we set up the browser on my machine and a server on a Sun. I called over to some local CS departments to invite them to drop by and meet this interesting guy and his hypertext project. They turned me down. One of them saying "A grad student could write that server in a week. Our version of hypertext is much more robust. Our links are bidirectional. Our servers keep state. Our hypertext language is better developed. And we rejected his paper." Tim's demo page that I copied is here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/old.page.html None of the links work now. ========================================================================== Paul Jones "Work as if you live in the early days of a better nation." Alasdair Gray http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/blog/ pjones@ibiblio.org voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 ===========================================================================
I think we know enough by now (whether from a social-shaping-of-technology base [1] or indeed from one of the excellent Web histories [2]) to drop the idea of the deus ex machina meets Eureka model of studying the Internet!
This is not to criticise TBL in any way - he is certainly an important figure and his writings are useful - but it is work *in context* that interests academic researchers, right?
And let us not forget the fact that there was an internet for many years before there was a World Wide Web, and although most of us use the rest of the net through a WWW interface most of the time now, there are still significant portions of the internet that are not the WWW. Some of us on this list were in fact studying the internet before there was a WWW.
participants (7)
-
Daithí Mac Síthigh -
elw＠stderr.org -
Jeremy Hunsinger -
Nancy Baym -
Paul Jones -
Richard Forno -
Sam Tilden