Wrote up an essay about this thread and the Hitler Meme phenomenon. Goes through the history of and reactions to the video, as well as the implications of memetics outside of online subculture: *Memes as Mechanisms: How Digital Subculture Informs the Real World * http://www.convergenceculture.org/weblog/2010/02/memes_as_mechanisms_how_dig... http://bit.ly/9aCdry Would love feedback if anyone has some. Alex Leavitt --- Alexander Leavitt Research Specialist, Convergence Culture Consortium Comparative Media Studies, MIT http://doalchemy.org Twitter: @alexleavitt On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Ren Reynolds <ren@aldermangroup.com> wrote:

Hitler finds out about the iPad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

ren

Ren Reynolds FRSA --8<--

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Thanks Alex, this looks interesting though I only just glanced at your essay right now. I used the mailing list discussion as an opportunity to talk to my students about memes in the context of remediation. Given that they're mostly Asian, they seemed to enjoy some of the Downfall videos I showed them with little or no concern about the context. They are not ignorant of the context, but will take to the parody much more easily than (some) Europeans. I'm curious how a similar student audience in Europe or the US might react and at what point memes would become unfunny. Giorgos Giorgos Cheliotis Assistant Professor Communications and New Media Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences National University of Singapore 

-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l- bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alex Leavitt Sent: Wednesday, 3 February, 2010 10:11 AM To: Ren Reynolds Cc: aoir list Subject: Re: [Air-L] the case for critical commons

Wrote up an essay about this thread and the Hitler Meme phenomenon. Goes through the history of and reactions to the video, as well as the implications of memetics outside of online subculture:

*Memes as Mechanisms: How Digital Subculture Informs the Real World * http://www.convergenceculture.org/weblog/2010/02/memes_as_mechanisms_ho w_digita.php http://bit.ly/9aCdry

Would love feedback if anyone has some.

Alex Leavitt

---

Alexander Leavitt Research Specialist, Convergence Culture Consortium Comparative Media Studies, MIT http://doalchemy.org Twitter: @alexleavitt

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Ren Reynolds <ren@aldermangroup.com> wrote:

...

Hitler finds out about the iPad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

ren

Ren Reynolds FRSA --8<--

web: www.renreynolds.com

Think Tank: www.virtualpolicy.net

blog: terranova.blogs.com

m (UK): +44(0) 7778 285 273

m (US, only when I’m there): +1 646-417-0641

Skype: RenZephyr

Twitter: twitter.com/RenZephyr Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=734676997

Linked-in: www.linkedin.com/in/renreynolds

aim | bebo | club penguin | cyworld | del.icio.us | EvE | gax | gia | habbo (UK) | iLike | jaiku | last.fm | LOTR (EU: Laurelin) | MapelStory | pownce | profilactic | rupture | skype | secondlife | there.com | tumblr. | twitter | upcoming | wacoopa | XBox Live: RenZephyr

facebook | flickr | MySpace | openID | plaxo: Ren Reynolds WoW (US Ettrig): Cabot

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It is interesting to see this meme coming up some 3 or 4 years after it began (downfall released in 2004, WoW video perhaps the first incarnation of this meme around the time of Burning Crusade's release). Constantin(e?) films used to go around and send take-down messages for Youtube: . It seems that they have either given in to the meme or stopped paying attention. That Hitler is getting reduced to some sort of cartoonish version of himself is an interesting thing that the internet seems to have brought us. My personal favorite of the Hitler thing is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4Wa_br39GU Racial stereotypes in Memes that become popular would be a really interesting topic for a paper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubmX-Xg1bAQ is probably the most concentrated collection of them. Nick LaLone Graduate Student / Systems Support Department of Sociology Texas State University - San Marcos On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 6:59 AM, Jankowski <nickjan@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Giorgos:

I will be 'playing' and addressing one of the versions of the video meme during a graduate-level seminar later this semester in Ljubljana, Slovenia, and will share the reactions with you and Alex afterwards if of sufficient substance. I am also very appreciative Alex took the trouble to compile (many of) the contributions to the thread - thank you!

Nick

************************************************************************************************* Nicholas W. Jankowski Visiting Fellow Virtual Knowledge Studio for the Humanities and Social Sciences Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences Amsterdam, NL

nickjan@xs4all.nl www.virtualknowledgestudio.nl (2009): <http://www.routledge.com/books/E-Research-isbn9780415990288>e-Research: Transformation in Scholarly Practice ICA pre-conference (2009): < http://www.icahdq.org/conferences/2009/future.asp>The Future is Prologue: New Media, New Histories? co-editor: <http://newmediaandsociety.com/>New Media & Society

**************************************************************************************************

At 13:00 3-2-2010, Giorgos Cheliotis wrote:

...

Thanks Alex, this looks interesting though I only just glanced at your essay right now. I used the mailing list discussion as an opportunity to talk to my students about memes in the context of remediation. Given that they're mostly Asian, they seemed to enjoy some of the Downfall videos I showed them with little or no concern about the context. They are not ignorant of the context, but will take to the parody much more easily than (some) Europeans. I'm curious how a similar student audience in Europe or the US might react and at what point memes would become unfunny.

Giorgos

Giorgos Cheliotis Assistant Professor Communications and New Media Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences National University of Singapore

...

-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l- bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alex Leavitt Sent: Wednesday, 3 February, 2010 10:11 AM To: Ren Reynolds Cc: aoir list Subject: Re: [Air-L] the case for critical commons

Wrote up an essay about this thread and the Hitler Meme phenomenon. Goes through the history of and reactions to the video, as well as the implications of memetics outside of online subculture:

*Memes as Mechanisms: How Digital Subculture Informs the Real World * http://www.convergenceculture.org/weblog/2010/02/memes_as_mechanisms_ho w_digita.php http://bit.ly/9aCdry

Would love feedback if anyone has some.

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Nils Zurawski wrote:

Although a little late to the discussion,...

The New York Times E-mail

TECHNOLOGY / PERSONAL TECH | February 25, 2010 Video Mad Libs With the Right Software By PAUL BOUTIN Making your own Hitler video turns out to be refreshingly easy, which is why so many of them can be found on YouTube.

Copyright 2010 The New York Times Company | Privacy Policy

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/25/technology/personaltech/25basics.html -- Mark D. Johns, Ph.D. Associate Professor and Head of the Department of Communication Studies Luther College, Decorah, Iowa USA http://academic.luther.edu/~johnsmar/ ----------------------------------------------- "Get the facts first. You can distort them later." ---Mark Twain

another very interesting consequences - How To Challenge a Wrongful YouTube Takedown http://bit.ly/aeOKVE Eleonora Panto' -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ http://www.puntopanto.it http://www.youcapital.it http://www.associazonedschola.it http://it.globalvoicesonline.org skype: epanto

Hi all, While I appreciate a number of elements in the essay, and am genuinely grateful for some of the elucidation it offers - I still think it misses some important points. There are some nits to pick, if we had world enough and time (e.g., while the general case seems to me to be strongly made, I'm not at all sure every quote supports the interpretation/claim made along the way) - but let me rather return to what I took to be the larger focus of the thread. 1. While I recognize and appreciate Alex's effort to be charitable when he characterizes my response to the meme as "somewhat misinformed" - I think a more accurate characterization would be "differently informed." Perhaps I'm stuck in seeing things through the lenses of hermeneutics, but it seems to me that part of the discussion here is how we interpret what amount to texts. From my perspective, one of the values of the thread was that it made abundantly clear that there are (at least) two very different sets of interpretations of this material - one that understands it as deeply embedded in a long and very complex cultural history, and a second that sees it disconnected from that language and history. As rather thoroughly rooted in the former perspective, I can understand the reading offered and defended by those such as Alex and others who inhabit the second perspective. I don't take their perspective, however, as "somewhat misinformed" - just differently informed. 2. Is the video funny or not? Again, my hermeneutical viewpoint says that it clearly depends on perspective. That said, perhaps I can make it somewhat clearer as to why I, and a least a few others of us (though I don't claim to speak for them, of course) - while understanding (I think) the perspective of those who do find it funny - just can't bring myself to laugh. If I have the Danish right (no promises there), a recent theatre piece in Copenhagen includes the portrayal of a gang rape of a young girl. (Danish readers can find this under the title of "Perversionernes hus byder indenfor: Sexslaver bliver bevogtet af militante vagter i mystisk villa på Østerbro" / <http://ibyen.dk/scene/anmeldelser/article892024.ece>) There is an accompanying video which shows some of the less appalling scenes (depending on your tastes, I suppose - how funny is apparently forced anal intercourse?) - but they leave out the scene described by the author who asks Hvorfor skal jeg gå ind og se en ung pige blive massevoldtaget af syv mænd, så hun til sidst ligger tilbage som en jamrende klump med blodigt underliv? Roughly: Why should I go in and see a young girl violently raped by seven men, until she at last falls back as a crying lump with a bloody lower body? I wonder: if we had the video of this scene - could someone take it and turn it into a funny meme along the lines of the Hitler video? For anyone who has been touched by violence - or the threat of violence - including sexual violence, against women, I doubt that there would be much way to do so. FWIW: my reaction to the Hitler meme is somewhat close to what I imagine my reaction to such a potential meme would be. Pardon my limitations, but I simply can't separate out the complex of Hitler from the complex of mass atrocities, etc. - any more than, after having discovered how many of my women friends have been the victims of male violence, I can laugh at jokes that involve such violence. That's just my perspective, of course. For those who can make such a separation in the Hitler case at least - terrific. 3. But finally - and Alex, if I'm missing something in your article, please correct me - all of this misses what I thought was the central point. The entire thread began with the subject heading "the case for critical commons." Perhaps it's just my silly, old-school training in logic, but "case" implies for me an argument - and as I reiterated, I thought the bloody thing failed argumentatively. Christian Fuchs elaborates on this nicely - but Alex cites Jeremy who argues (!) that this is not the way to read the meme. (So, again, we seem to be having a discussion (which will, of course, entail more arguments and thus logic, whether good or bad) about how to read/interpret the production, i.e., a discussion about hermeneutics.) Insofar as my interpretation of the thread - that the meme is an intended argument - can be defended, then I repeat the point: for me, at least, it fails as an argument. Not only, in my view, does the meme work only by way of making false analogies - it further only works, so far as I can tell, as an exercise in ad hominem, i.e., an attack against the person, not (as would be needed), a critique of any argument. Only crazed dictators would believe or seek to defend the claim that there might be something of value in what is now dismissed as old-school, print-based scholarship and learning. Just to be clear: whatever the merits of the _case(s)_ to be made here - i.e., whether or not good arguments can be made either in favor of or against print-based learning and scholarship, or, for that matter whether or not good arguments can be made either in favor of or against electronic/digitally based approaches - however funny it may be (for some, perhaps many) to compare the bearer of those arguments with Hitler, the humor itself does not tell us anything about the in/validity of those arguments. FWIW: I in fact am willing to argue that print-based scholarship and learning have certain strengths and affordances that are missing in their digital counterparts - just as I'm willing, for what it's worth, to argue the same for the digital counterparts. But as the thread unfolded, whatever arguments might have been made one way or another didn't get made. Perhaps it was in part because we got distracted by the question of humor - perhaps it was in part because the video was indeed effect, as ad hominem arguments often are: anyone who wants to make an argument in favor of print-based scholarship and learning now starts as enframed as a ranting dictator. Won't slow me down ... But it does strike me as worrisome that we don't ever seem to have gotten to the case for critical commons in genuinely argumentative terms. Those arguments are important - indeed, I think they're among the most crucial we can be examining at this juncture. Please, let's have the argument - the case - instead of getting distracted, if not entirely misled, by a meme that otherwise makes it so easy to simply dismiss any arguments contrary to such as case as merely the rants of a crazed dictator? Hope this helps - again, thanks to Alex for his work and to all for your contributions to this thread. Cordially, - charles On 2/3/10 3:10 AM, "Alex Leavitt" <alexleavitt@gmail.com> wrote:

Wrote up an essay about this thread and the Hitler Meme phenomenon. Goes through the history of and reactions to the video, as well as the implications of memetics outside of online subculture:

*Memes as Mechanisms: How Digital Subculture Informs the Real World * http://www.convergenceculture.org/weblog/2010/02/memes_as_mechanisms_how_dig... a.php http://bit.ly/9aCdry

Would love feedback if anyone has some.

Alex Leavitt

---

Alexander Leavitt Research Specialist, Convergence Culture Consortium Comparative Media Studies, MIT http://doalchemy.org Twitter: @alexleavitt

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:43 AM, Ren Reynolds <ren@aldermangroup.com> wrote:

...

Hitler finds out about the iPad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQnT0zp8Ya4

ren

Ren Reynolds FRSA --8<--

web: www.renreynolds.com

Think Tank: www.virtualpolicy.net

blog: terranova.blogs.com

m (UK): +44(0) 7778 285 273

m (US, only when I¹m there): +1 646-417-0641

Skype: RenZephyr

Twitter: twitter.com/RenZephyr Facebook: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=734676997

Linked-in: www.linkedin.com/in/renreynolds

aim | bebo | club penguin | cyworld | del.icio.us | EvE | gax | gia | habbo (UK) | iLike | jaiku | last.fm | LOTR (EU: Laurelin) | MapelStory | pownce | profilactic | rupture | skype | secondlife | there.com | tumblr. | twitter | upcoming | wacoopa | XBox Live: RenZephyr

facebook | flickr | MySpace | openID | plaxo: Ren Reynolds WoW (US Ettrig): Cabot

Moshi Monster: www.moshimonsters.com/monsters/renreynolds dopplr: www.dopplr.com/traveller/RenReynolds

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