Hi Jakob, <I admit that we might miss important work and exclude some persons by having English as a <working language but the costs of including more languages are too big, in my opinion. I find that every time we talk about minority participation in anything, someone brings up arguments such as yours. But just think for a moment, if all the money spent on the war in Iraq (200 billion!!) were devoted to to excavation of historical artifacts in this ancient land with the involvement of the United Nations . Sounds bizarre? War doesnt? Ok, so we dont have the Pentagon budget. Can we afford the loss? I think that our priorities should be put first, then the money will follow, not the other way around. Jarek >From: "Jakob Linaa Jensen" <Jakob.Linaa@ps.au.dk> >Reply-To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org >To: <air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org> >Subject: [Air-l] Hungarian and others 2 >Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:48:25 +0200 > > >Let me add to my previous comment that I think we should definitely >welcome contributions from other language areas and countries than those >traditionally contributing. My comments addressed the question of the >working language for the AoIR conferences alone, just to avoid any >misunderstandings .... :-) >_______________________________________________ >Air-l-aoir.org mailing list >Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org >http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org _________________________________________________________________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx
Ok, so we dont have the Pentagon budget. Can we afford the loss? I think that our priorities should be put first, then the money will follow, not the other way around.
then we go bankrupt:) no thanks:) sustainability is the first goal. if we don't exist anymore, we can't have goals.... Jeremy Hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments
Hi all, As I'm new at this list, first I'll briefly introduce myself. I'm just a phd student from Argentina, in USA, studying intercultural -and multilingual- online communities and I found this debate very interesting. But as a Spanish-speaking researcher I think I can say a pair of things about this issue. Language is an obstacle even for those *very few* fortunate like me that can read, write, listen and speak English in a more or less acceptable level. But, even more, there are many excellent researchers in the world, specially those older and more experienced, for whom English is an absolute barrier, and because of that the mainstream research can't get their outcomes. I agree with Jarek that priorities are first, budget second. What is a sustainable project worth for without goals? But priorities are so difficult to agree with when parts don't share backgrounds, and perspectives. Unfortunately, we know there are no easy solutions for the old problem originated in Babel (talking about the Iraqi region... ;-). But as a start, I would humbly suggest to all English-speakers to make the effort of learning at least one foreign language and travel to a country were they have to use it to survive. That's an excelllent learning experience for anybody. Feeling what's to be 'minority' for a moment may help them to understand the need of addressing the language problem. Regards, saludos, Enrique Stanziola U of Maryland, Baltimore County On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:12:22 -0400, jeremy hunsinger <jhuns@vt.edu> wrote:
Ok, so we don't have the Pentagon budget. Can we afford the loss? I think that our priorities should be put first, then the money will follow, not the other way around.
then we go bankrupt:) no thanks:) sustainability is the first goal. if we don't exist anymore, we can't have goals....
Jeremy Hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments
_______________________________________________ Air-l-aoir.org mailing list Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Enrique: Estoy absolutamente de acuerdo contigo, el tema de la barrera de idioma + la berrea de visa + las barreras económicas dejan siempre de lado a aquello que más necesitan de espacios como los de AOIR I hope that for those not Spanish speakers, the above simple of what means to have linguistic barriers have not been traumatic ;-). I again stress that it is not only about linguistic barriers when discussing about the place of AOIR next conference. Pls. note that you all had included political restrictions to moving, and I included economical budget barriers for logistics. Then I conclude that if AOIR people wants to be consistent with a "one-world-for-all" view, it is imperative to put ICT tools to work for people. Let the conference be dual virtual and real. Cristian Berrío Zapata Profesor PUJ - UNAL Facultad de Economía Teléfono (57 3)300 817 9849 cberrioz@cable.net.co CHAT cristianberrioz@hotmail.com -----Mensaje original----- De: air-l-aoir.org-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-aoir.org-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] En nombre de Enrique S Enviado el: Martes, 05 de Octubre de 2004 12:54 p.m. Para: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Asunto: Re: [Air-l] minorities Hi all, As I'm new at this list, first I'll briefly introduce myself. I'm just a phd student from Argentina, in USA, studying intercultural -and multilingual- online communities and I found this debate very interesting. But as a Spanish-speaking researcher I think I can say a pair of things about this issue. Language is an obstacle even for those *very few* fortunate like me that can read, write, listen and speak English in a more or less acceptable level. But, even more, there are many excellent researchers in the world, specially those older and more experienced, for whom English is an absolute barrier, and because of that the mainstream research can't get their outcomes. I agree with Jarek that priorities are first, budget second. What is a sustainable project worth for without goals? But priorities are so difficult to agree with when parts don't share backgrounds, and perspectives. Unfortunately, we know there are no easy solutions for the old problem originated in Babel (talking about the Iraqi region... ;-). But as a start, I would humbly suggest to all English-speakers to make the effort of learning at least one foreign language and travel to a country were they have to use it to survive. That's an excelllent learning experience for anybody. Feeling what's to be 'minority' for a moment may help them to understand the need of addressing the language problem. Regards, saludos, Enrique Stanziola U of Maryland, Baltimore County On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:12:22 -0400, jeremy hunsinger <jhuns@vt.edu> wrote:
Ok, so we don't have the Pentagon budget. Can we afford the loss? I think that our priorities should be put first, then the money will follow, not the other way around.
then we go bankrupt:) no thanks:) sustainability is the first goal. if we don't exist anymore, we can't have goals....
Jeremy Hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments
_______________________________________________ Air-l-aoir.org mailing list Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
_______________________________________________ Air-l-aoir.org mailing list Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
I think everyone agrees with most of the points below, the difference, at least for me, is that it is less a matter of 'letting it be virtual' as 'making it be virtual' and then the question becomes one of logistics, which then brings up money and labor as mentioned many times below. so here is what I suggest, why don't those people who want to work on making this happen, take a few days, get together via email, and write up some ideas oriented how they personally would be involved in getting it done, but not merely advocating that it should be done. with that in hand, I and I'm sure others in the executive will advocate the establishment of an official working group that can be charged with making it happen. On Oct 7, 2004, at 10:01 AM, Cristian Berrío Zapata wrote:
Enrique:
Estoy absolutamente de acuerdo contigo, el tema de la barrera de idioma + la berrea de visa + las barreras económicas dejan siempre de lado a aquello que más necesitan de espacios como los de AOIR
I hope that for those not Spanish speakers, the above simple of what means to have linguistic barriers have not been traumatic ;-).
I again stress that it is not only about linguistic barriers when discussing about the place of AOIR next conference. Pls. note that you all had included political restrictions to moving, and I included economical budget barriers for logistics.
Then I conclude that if AOIR people wants to be consistent with a "one-world-for-all" view, it is imperative to put ICT tools to work for people. Let the conference be dual virtual and real.
Cristian Berrío Zapata Profesor PUJ - UNAL Facultad de Economía Teléfono (57 3)300 817 9849 cberrioz@cable.net.co CHAT cristianberrioz@hotmail.com
-----Mensaje original----- De: air-l-aoir.org-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-aoir.org-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] En nombre de Enrique S Enviado el: Martes, 05 de Octubre de 2004 12:54 p.m. Para: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Asunto: Re: [Air-l] minorities
Hi all,
As I'm new at this list, first I'll briefly introduce myself. I'm just a phd student from Argentina, in USA, studying intercultural -and multilingual- online communities and I found this debate very interesting. But as a Spanish-speaking researcher I think I can say a pair of things about this issue. Language is an obstacle even for those *very few* fortunate like me that can read, write, listen and speak English in a more or less acceptable level. But, even more, there are many excellent researchers in the world, specially those older and more experienced, for whom English is an absolute barrier, and because of that the mainstream research can't get their outcomes.
I agree with Jarek that priorities are first, budget second. What is a sustainable project worth for without goals? But priorities are so difficult to agree with when parts don't share backgrounds, and perspectives.
Unfortunately, we know there are no easy solutions for the old problem originated in Babel (talking about the Iraqi region... ;-). But as a start, I would humbly suggest to all English-speakers to make the effort of learning at least one foreign language and travel to a country were they have to use it to survive. That's an excelllent learning experience for anybody. Feeling what's to be 'minority' for a moment may help them to understand the need of addressing the language problem.
Regards, saludos,
Enrique Stanziola U of Maryland, Baltimore County
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 13:12:22 -0400, jeremy hunsinger <jhuns@vt.edu> wrote:
Ok, so we don't have the Pentagon budget. Can we afford the loss? I think that our priorities should be put first, then the money will follow, not the other way around.
then we go bankrupt:) no thanks:) sustainability is the first goal. if we don't exist anymore, we can't have goals....
Jeremy Hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments
_______________________________________________ Air-l-aoir.org mailing list Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
_______________________________________________ Air-l-aoir.org mailing list Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org _______________________________________________ Air-l-aoir.org mailing list Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Jeremy Hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments
participants (4)
-
Cristian Berrío Zapata -
Enrique S -
J. J. -
jeremy hunsinger