IRB Exemption and Terms of Service - Reddit.com
Hello AoIR, My name is Charles Tong and I currently working on my undergraduate thesis in Sociology. Specifically, I am trying to construct a social network based on reddit.com by data-mining posts and comments from day to day. I am specifically looking to identify how consistent influence and power is created on the website. I hope to do this by constructing multiple networks from day to day of specific sub-forums and differentiating between those who are one-time stars and consistent stars. Then I will perform a content analysis of certain influential posts to determine what makes someone consistently powerful or not and in what ways they are influential. Unfortunately, I am unsure of how this will pass under IRB exemption. I am hoping that anyone on the AoIR mailing list may have some insight that may help. I have attempted to e-mail and get in contact with the website numerous times, but each time, they have not responded. I understand that I will have to send reddit.com’s user agreement. The user agreement states the following: “You may not in any way make commercial or other unauthorized use, by publication, re-transmission, distribution, performance, caching, or otherwise, of material obtained through the Website, including without limitation the Assets or Website Content, except as permitted by the Copyright Act or other law or as expressly permitted in writing by this Agreement, Service Provider or the Website.” I was wondering if anyone knows how to approach this specific issue. I understand that Fair Use might permit this research under the Copyright Act, but I am not sure of its nature. Thank you very much in advance for your help. Let me know if any additional information should be provided. Best Regards, Charles Tong
Dear Charles, Thanks for writing. This sounds like an interesting project. My first advice would be to inquire with the IRB at your institution. If I were you, I would call or email them and discuss your project. In my experiences at the University of Minnesota, I found that the IRB was very helpful and good at explaining their guidelines. I have heard stories about IRB's at other institutions, though, so I suspect that your best bet may be to approach your IRB and ask for their help about how to best proceed. Hope this helps, Peter On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Charles Tong <charles.t.tong@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello AoIR,
My name is Charles Tong and I currently working on my undergraduate thesis in Sociology. Specifically, I am trying to construct a social network based on reddit.com by data-mining posts and comments from day to day. I am specifically looking to identify how consistent influence and power is created on the website. I hope to do this by constructing multiple networks from day to day of specific sub-forums and differentiating between those who are one-time stars and consistent stars. Then I will perform a content analysis of certain influential posts to determine what makes someone consistently powerful or not and in what ways they are influential.
Unfortunately, I am unsure of how this will pass under IRB exemption. I am hoping that anyone on the AoIR mailing list may have some insight that may help. I have attempted to e-mail and get in contact with the website numerous times, but each time, they have not responded. I understand that I will have to send reddit.com’s user agreement.
The user agreement states the following: “You may not in any way make commercial or other unauthorized use, by publication, re-transmission, distribution, performance, caching, or otherwise, of material obtained through the Website, including without limitation the Assets or Website Content, except as permitted by the Copyright Act or other law or as expressly permitted in writing by this Agreement, Service Provider or the Website.”
I was wondering if anyone knows how to approach this specific issue. I understand that Fair Use might permit this research under the Copyright Act, but I am not sure of its nature.
Thank you very much in advance for your help. Let me know if any additional information should be provided.
Best Regards, Charles Tong _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Peter Joseph Gloviczki, Ph.D. http://petergloviczki.com
Charles, You've got two separate issues here: copyright and IRB. According to my understanding you should be able to use the data you're collecting under the Fair Use clause. The TOS you copied below specifically mentions commercial or unauthorized uses under copyright. The Fair Use clause states: "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright." You need to understand though that fair use is not a right, it's a "defensible position", meaning that it is an acceptable defense in any legal action; however, you would have to prove that your use of the material falls under the fair use clause in a courtroom if the company decides to challenge your use of their data--it doesn't automatically negate the possibility of legal action. There are a couple of things I'd suggest. First, you need to find out what your advisor will approve. They are directing your thesis and you need to make sure any data you use meets with their approval. Second, most university legal departments have some statement about what constitutes fair use on their campus, so I'd check with them (but I'd say only if your advisor requires it--many universities actually have much stricter policies on paper than are required under the Fair Use clause). Third, I'd look at the Ethics Guide from AOIR (http://aoir.org/documents/ethics-guide/) and make sure you're working within those guidelines. They've been developed by scholars who regularly work with the type of data you're using, so you should make sure your study works within those guidelines. Regarding IRB, I agree with Charles. You should contact your university IRB and find out what requirements they may have for exempt or non-exempt status. Often departments or colleges within universities will have an IRB specialist that you can work with and who will help you fill out the appropriate applications. Good luck, Kathie On Oct 25, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Charles Tong wrote:
Hello AoIR,
My name is Charles Tong and I currently working on my undergraduate thesis in Sociology. Specifically, I am trying to construct a social network based on reddit.com by data-mining posts and comments from day to day. I am specifically looking to identify how consistent influence and power is created on the website. I hope to do this by constructing multiple networks from day to day of specific sub-forums and differentiating between those who are one-time stars and consistent stars. Then I will perform a content analysis of certain influential posts to determine what makes someone consistently powerful or not and in what ways they are influential.
Unfortunately, I am unsure of how this will pass under IRB exemption. I am hoping that anyone on the AoIR mailing list may have some insight that may help. I have attempted to e-mail and get in contact with the website numerous times, but each time, they have not responded. I understand that I will have to send reddit.com’s user agreement.
The user agreement states the following: “You may not in any way make commercial or other unauthorized use, by publication, re-transmission, distribution, performance, caching, or otherwise, of material obtained through the Website, including without limitation the Assets or Website Content, except as permitted by the Copyright Act or other law or as expressly permitted in writing by this Agreement, Service Provider or the Website.”
I was wondering if anyone knows how to approach this specific issue. I understand that Fair Use might permit this research under the Copyright Act, but I am not sure of its nature.
Thank you very much in advance for your help. Let me know if any additional information should be provided.
Best Regards, Charles Tong _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Er -- since we don't know what jurisdiction Charles is in, we can't say whether fair use applies to him or not (or, for that matter, how enforceable the Reddit ToS is against him). It sounds like he might be located in the U.S. but that's a guess. I also don't think we know enough about his research to say very much about copyright/fair use. There are a lot of moving parts there. Just as an example, it's not clear to me from his post what kind of data he is gathering -- but the copyright in the "influential posts" he wants to analyze may very well lie with the authors, not with Reddit. (In which case, if his IRB wants informed consent from the participants, he might end up with their authorization to copy the material as well.) DLB
Charles,
You've got two separate issues here: copyright and IRB.
According to my understanding you should be able to use the data you're collecting under the Fair Use clause. The TOS you copied below specifically mentions commercial or unauthorized uses under copyright. The Fair Use clause states: "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright." You need to understand though that fair use is not a right, it's a "defensible position", meaning that it is an acceptable defense in any legal action; however, you would have to prove that your use of the material falls under the fair use clause in a courtroom if the company decides to challenge your use of their data--it doesn't automatically negate the possibility of legal action.
There are a couple of things I'd suggest. First, you need to find out what your advisor will approve. They are directing your thesis and you need to make sure any data you use meets with their approval. Second, most university legal departments have some statement about what constitutes fair use on their campus, so I'd check with them (but I'd say only if your advisor requires it--many universities actually have much stricter policies on paper than are required under the Fair Use clause). Third, I'd look at the Ethics Guide from AOIR (http://aoir.org/documents/ethics-guide/) and make sure you're working within those guidelines. They've been developed by scholars who regularly work with the type of data you're using, so you should make sure your study works within those guidelines.
Regarding IRB, I agree with Charles. You should contact your university IRB and find out what requirements they may have for exempt or non-exempt status. Often departments or colleges within universities will have an IRB specialist that you can work with and who will help you fill out the appropriate applications.
Good luck, Kathie
On Oct 25, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Charles Tong wrote:
Hello AoIR,
My name is Charles Tong and I currently working on my undergraduate thesis in Sociology. Specifically, I am trying to construct a social network based on reddit.com by data-mining posts and comments from day to day. I am specifically looking to identify how consistent influence and power is created on the website. I hope to do this by constructing multiple networks from day to day of specific sub-forums and differentiating between those who are one-time stars and consistent stars. Then I will perform a content analysis of certain influential posts to determine what makes someone consistently powerful or not and in what ways they are influential.
Unfortunately, I am unsure of how this will pass under IRB exemption. I am hoping that anyone on the AoIR mailing list may have some insight that may help. I have attempted to e-mail and get in contact with the website numerous times, but each time, they have not responded. I understand that I will have to send reddit.coms user agreement.
The user agreement states the following: You may not in any way make commercial or other unauthorized use, by publication, re-transmission, distribution, performance, caching, or otherwise, of material obtained through the Website, including without limitation the Assets or Website Content, except as permitted by the Copyright Act or other law or as expressly permitted in writing by this Agreement, Service Provider or the Website.
I was wondering if anyone knows how to approach this specific issue. I understand that Fair Use might permit this research under the Copyright Act, but I am not sure of its nature.
Thank you very much in advance for your help. Let me know if any additional information should be provided.
Best Regards, Charles Tong _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- School of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336 bits: dburk@uci.edu
Hello everyone, Thank you so much for all the help. This is going to be astronomically helpful to me. I am currently scheduling an appointment with my university's legal services and my university's IRB to sort this further out. I will be sure to negotiate something out of this. I am located in the US, and am currently going to Rutgers University. I apologize for not mentioning it in my first e-mail. The information that I am specifically gathering includes: Username who posted (recoded into a number for anonymity) Total Karma for post Number of Upvotes and Downvotes received Number of Replies Who the post replied to The highest post in a reply hierarchy Content of post (if they are a celebrity) Whether the post is posted by the topic creator If the post is the topic post, the topic post’s content, and the topic’s title Further, these data will be collected for each person listed as a “celebrity:” A celebrity is determined by those who receive at least 50 upvotes or downvotes Total Karma Total Karma for that day (Link and Comment) Total Upvotes and Downvotes for that day Total posts during the day Number of replies received during the day Does he nature of the information that I'm gathering violate the Copyright Act? Please let me know if any more information is needed. Once again, thank you very much much for helping me with this project. Best Regards, Charles Tong On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Dan L. Burk <dburk@uci.edu> wrote:
Er -- since we don't know what jurisdiction Charles is in, we can't say whether fair use applies to him or not (or, for that matter, how enforceable the Reddit ToS is against him).
It sounds like he might be located in the U.S. but that's a guess.
I also don't think we know enough about his research to say very much about copyright/fair use. There are a lot of moving parts there. Just as an example, it's not clear to me from his post what kind of data he is gathering -- but the copyright in the "influential posts" he wants to analyze may very well lie with the authors, not with Reddit.
(In which case, if his IRB wants informed consent from the participants, he might end up with their authorization to copy the material as well.)
DLB
Charles,
You've got two separate issues here: copyright and IRB.
According to my understanding you should be able to use the data you're collecting under the Fair Use clause. The TOS you copied below specifically mentions commercial or unauthorized uses under copyright. The Fair Use clause states: "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright." You need to understand though that fair use is not a right, it's a "defensible position", meaning that it is an acceptable defense in any legal action; however, you would have to prove that your use of the material falls under the fair use clause in a courtroom if the company decides to challenge your use of their data--it doesn't automatically negate the possibility of legal action.
There are a couple of things I'd suggest. First, you need to find out what your advisor will approve. They are directing your thesis and you need to make sure any data you use meets with their approval. Second, most university legal departments have some statement about what constitutes fair use on their campus, so I'd check with them (but I'd say only if your advisor requires it--many universities actually have much stricter policies on paper than are required under the Fair Use clause). Third, I'd look at the Ethics Guide from AOIR (http://aoir.org/documents/ethics-guide/) and make sure you're working within those guidelines. They've been developed by scholars who regularly work with the type of data you're using, so you should make sure your study works within those guidelines.
Regarding IRB, I agree with Charles. You should contact your university IRB and find out what requirements they may have for exempt or non-exempt status. Often departments or colleges within universities will have an IRB specialist that you can work with and who will help you fill out the appropriate applications.
Good luck, Kathie
On Oct 25, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Charles Tong wrote:
Hello AoIR,
My name is Charles Tong and I currently working on my undergraduate thesis in Sociology. Specifically, I am trying to construct a social network based on reddit.com by data-mining posts and comments from day to day. I am specifically looking to identify how consistent influence and power is created on the website. I hope to do this by constructing multiple networks from day to day of specific sub-forums and differentiating between those who are one-time stars and consistent stars. Then I will perform a content analysis of certain influential posts to determine what makes someone consistently powerful or not and in what ways they are influential.
Unfortunately, I am unsure of how this will pass under IRB exemption. I am hoping that anyone on the AoIR mailing list may have some insight that may help. I have attempted to e-mail and get in contact with the website numerous times, but each time, they have not responded. I understand that I will have to send reddit.com’s user agreement.
The user agreement states the following: “You may not in any way make commercial or other unauthorized use, by publication, re-transmission, distribution, performance, caching, or otherwise, of material obtained through the Website, including without limitation the Assets or Website Content, except as permitted by the Copyright Act or other law or as expressly permitted in writing by this Agreement, Service Provider or the Website.”
I was wondering if anyone knows how to approach this specific issue. I understand that Fair Use might permit this research under the Copyright Act, but I am not sure of its nature.
Thank you very much in advance for your help. Let me know if any additional information should be provided.
Best Regards, Charles Tong _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- School of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336 bits: dburk@uci.edu
Charles, I think the copyright point should be moot based upon the Fair Use argument that Kathie referred to earlier. The protection of the intellectual property should not be effected by your research. As for the IRB, Rutgers is worried about the harm your research is going to do to your research pool. AoIR has discussed IRB issues for years. The best answer is to fill out the exemption form at http://orsp.rutgers.edu/sites/orsp.rutgers.edu/files/irb_forms/IRB%20Exempt%... and be as clear as what your research is looking for. As for previous research, look at Eric Rothenbuhler work on the cult of the celebrity and my work on Nanocelebrity. Shane Tilton Sent from my iPhone On Oct 26, 2012, at 11:25, "Charles Tong" <charles.t.tong@gmail.com<mailto:charles.t.tong@gmail.com>> wrote: Hello everyone, Thank you so much for all the help. This is going to be astronomically helpful to me. I am currently scheduling an appointment with my university's legal services and my university's IRB to sort this further out. I will be sure to negotiate something out of this. I am located in the US, and am currently going to Rutgers University. I apologize for not mentioning it in my first e-mail. The information that I am specifically gathering includes: Username who posted (recoded into a number for anonymity) Total Karma for post Number of Upvotes and Downvotes received Number of Replies Who the post replied to The highest post in a reply hierarchy Content of post (if they are a celebrity) Whether the post is posted by the topic creator If the post is the topic post, the topic post’s content, and the topic’s title Further, these data will be collected for each person listed as a “celebrity:” A celebrity is determined by those who receive at least 50 upvotes or downvotes Total Karma Total Karma for that day (Link and Comment) Total Upvotes and Downvotes for that day Total posts during the day Number of replies received during the day Does he nature of the information that I'm gathering violate the Copyright Act? Please let me know if any more information is needed. Once again, thank you very much much for helping me with this project. Best Regards, Charles Tong On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Dan L. Burk <dburk@uci.edu<mailto:dburk@uci.edu>> wrote: Er -- since we don't know what jurisdiction Charles is in, we can't say whether fair use applies to him or not (or, for that matter, how enforceable the Reddit ToS is against him). It sounds like he might be located in the U.S. but that's a guess. I also don't think we know enough about his research to say very much about copyright/fair use. There are a lot of moving parts there. Just as an example, it's not clear to me from his post what kind of data he is gathering -- but the copyright in the "influential posts" he wants to analyze may very well lie with the authors, not with Reddit. (In which case, if his IRB wants informed consent from the participants, he might end up with their authorization to copy the material as well.) DLB Charles, You've got two separate issues here: copyright and IRB. According to my understanding you should be able to use the data you're collecting under the Fair Use clause. The TOS you copied below specifically mentions commercial or unauthorized uses under copyright. The Fair Use clause states: "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright." You need to understand though that fair use is not a right, it's a "defensible position", meaning that it is an acceptable defense in any legal action; however, you would have to prove that your use of the material falls under the fair use clause in a courtroom if the company decides to challenge your use of their data--it doesn't automatically negate the possibility of legal action. There are a couple of things I'd suggest. First, you need to find out what your advisor will approve. They are directing your thesis and you need to make sure any data you use meets with their approval. Second, most university legal departments have some statement about what constitutes fair use on their campus, so I'd check with them (but I'd say only if your advisor requires it--many universities actually have much stricter policies on paper than are required under the Fair Use clause). Third, I'd look at the Ethics Guide from AOIR (http://aoir.org/documents/ethics-guide/) and make sure you're working within those guidelines. They've been developed by scholars who regularly work with the type of data you're using, so you should make sure your study works within those guidelines. Regarding IRB, I agree with Charles. You should contact your university IRB and find out what requirements they may have for exempt or non-exempt status. Often departments or colleges within universities will have an IRB specialist that you can work with and who will help you fill out the appropriate applications. Good luck, Kathie On Oct 25, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Charles Tong wrote: Hello AoIR, My name is Charles Tong and I currently working on my undergraduate thesis in Sociology. Specifically, I am trying to construct a social network based on reddit.com<http://reddit.com> by data-mining posts and comments from day to day. I am specifically looking to identify how consistent influence and power is created on the website. I hope to do this by constructing multiple networks from day to day of specific sub-forums and differentiating between those who are one-time stars and consistent stars. Then I will perform a content analysis of certain influential posts to determine what makes someone consistently powerful or not and in what ways they are influential. Unfortunately, I am unsure of how this will pass under IRB exemption. I am hoping that anyone on the AoIR mailing list may have some insight that may help. I have attempted to e-mail and get in contact with the website numerous times, but each time, they have not responded. I understand that I will have to send reddit.com<http://reddit.com>’s user agreement. The user agreement states the following: “You may not in any way make commercial or other unauthorized use, by publication, re-transmission, distribution, performance, caching, or otherwise, of material obtained through the Website, including without limitation the Assets or Website Content, except as permitted by the Copyright Act or other law or as expressly permitted in writing by this Agreement, Service Provider or the Website.” I was wondering if anyone knows how to approach this specific issue. I understand that Fair Use might permit this research under the Copyright Act, but I am not sure of its nature. Thank you very much in advance for your help. Let me know if any additional information should be provided. Best Regards, Charles Tong _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org<mailto:Air-L@listserv.aoir.org> mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org<mailto:Air-L@listserv.aoir.org> mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ -- School of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336 bits: dburk@uci.edu<mailto:dburk@uci.edu> _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org<mailto:Air-L@listserv.aoir.org> mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Charles, a lot of people (often in the interests of the organization they work for) outright lie through their teeth about copyright law, they know they are doing it and they don't care: http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/dmca-nfl A lot of academic journals have incorrect copyright notices too, which is a shame and a bit embarrassing but I don't see that the big publishers would care about a small dust up from the academics off of whom they make a living. -Nat Poor. ------------------------------- Nathaniel Poor, Ph.D. http://natpoor.blogspot.com/ https://sites.google.com/site/natpoor/ On Oct 26, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Tilton, Shane wrote:
Charles,
I think the copyright point should be moot based upon the Fair Use argument that Kathie referred to earlier. The protection of the intellectual property should not be effected by your research. As for the IRB, Rutgers is worried about the harm your research is going to do to your research pool. AoIR has discussed IRB issues for years. The best answer is to fill out the exemption form at http://orsp.rutgers.edu/sites/orsp.rutgers.edu/files/irb_forms/IRB%20Exempt%... and be as clear as what your research is looking for.
As for previous research, look at Eric Rothenbuhler work on the cult of the celebrity and my work on Nanocelebrity.
Shane Tilton Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 26, 2012, at 11:25, "Charles Tong" <charles.t.tong@gmail.com<mailto:charles.t.tong@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hello everyone,
Thank you so much for all the help. This is going to be astronomically helpful to me. I am currently scheduling an appointment with my university's legal services and my university's IRB to sort this further out. I will be sure to negotiate something out of this.
I am located in the US, and am currently going to Rutgers University. I apologize for not mentioning it in my first e-mail. The information that I am specifically gathering includes:
Username who posted (recoded into a number for anonymity) Total Karma for post Number of Upvotes and Downvotes received Number of Replies Who the post replied to The highest post in a reply hierarchy Content of post (if they are a celebrity) Whether the post is posted by the topic creator If the post is the topic post, the topic post’s content, and the topic’s title
Further, these data will be collected for each person listed as a “celebrity:” A celebrity is determined by those who receive at least 50 upvotes or downvotes
Total Karma Total Karma for that day (Link and Comment) Total Upvotes and Downvotes for that day Total posts during the day Number of replies received during the day
Does he nature of the information that I'm gathering violate the Copyright Act? Please let me know if any more information is needed.
Once again, thank you very much much for helping me with this project.
Best Regards, Charles Tong
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Dan L. Burk <dburk@uci.edu<mailto:dburk@uci.edu>> wrote:
Er -- since we don't know what jurisdiction Charles is in, we can't say whether fair use applies to him or not (or, for that matter, how enforceable the Reddit ToS is against him).
It sounds like he might be located in the U.S. but that's a guess.
I also don't think we know enough about his research to say very much about copyright/fair use. There are a lot of moving parts there. Just as an example, it's not clear to me from his post what kind of data he is gathering -- but the copyright in the "influential posts" he wants to analyze may very well lie with the authors, not with Reddit.
(In which case, if his IRB wants informed consent from the participants, he might end up with their authorization to copy the material as well.)
DLB
Charles,
You've got two separate issues here: copyright and IRB.
According to my understanding you should be able to use the data you're collecting under the Fair Use clause. The TOS you copied below specifically mentions commercial or unauthorized uses under copyright. The Fair Use clause states: "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright." You need to understand though that fair use is not a right, it's a "defensible position", meaning that it is an acceptable defense in any legal action; however, you would have to prove that your use of the material falls under the fair use clause in a courtroom if the company decides to challenge your use of their data--it doesn't automatically negate the possibility of legal action.
There are a couple of things I'd suggest. First, you need to find out what your advisor will approve. They are directing your thesis and you need to make sure any data you use meets with their approval. Second, most university legal departments have some statement about what constitutes fair use on their campus, so I'd check with them (but I'd say only if your advisor requires it--many universities actually have much stricter policies on paper than are required under the Fair Use clause). Third, I'd look at the Ethics Guide from AOIR (http://aoir.org/documents/ethics-guide/) and make sure you're working within those guidelines. They've been developed by scholars who regularly work with the type of data you're using, so you should make sure your study works within those guidelines.
Regarding IRB, I agree with Charles. You should contact your university IRB and find out what requirements they may have for exempt or non-exempt status. Often departments or colleges within universities will have an IRB specialist that you can work with and who will help you fill out the appropriate applications.
Good luck, Kathie
On Oct 25, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Charles Tong wrote:
Hello AoIR,
My name is Charles Tong and I currently working on my undergraduate thesis in Sociology. Specifically, I am trying to construct a social network based on reddit.com<http://reddit.com> by data-mining posts and comments from day to day. I am specifically looking to identify how consistent influence and power is created on the website. I hope to do this by constructing multiple networks from day to day of specific sub-forums and differentiating between those who are one-time stars and consistent stars. Then I will perform a content analysis of certain influential posts to determine what makes someone consistently powerful or not and in what ways they are influential.
Unfortunately, I am unsure of how this will pass under IRB exemption. I am hoping that anyone on the AoIR mailing list may have some insight that may help. I have attempted to e-mail and get in contact with the website numerous times, but each time, they have not responded. I understand that I will have to send reddit.com<http://reddit.com>’s user agreement.
The user agreement states the following: “You may not in any way make commercial or other unauthorized use, by publication, re-transmission, distribution, performance, caching, or otherwise, of material obtained through the Website, including without limitation the Assets or Website Content, except as permitted by the Copyright Act or other law or as expressly permitted in writing by this Agreement, Service Provider or the Website.”
I was wondering if anyone knows how to approach this specific issue. I understand that Fair Use might permit this research under the Copyright Act, but I am not sure of its nature.
Thank you very much in advance for your help. Let me know if any additional information should be provided.
Best Regards, Charles Tong _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org<mailto:Air-L@listserv.aoir.org> mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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Hello Everyone, Thank you so much for all the information, this is immensely useful, and I think I know how to navigate this issue now. Unfortunately, since the majority of my data is not gathered voluntarily, and volunteers would greatly alter the nature of the network, I am not sure that is an option. Luckily, I am ensuring that all the usernames will be hashed to ensure further anonymity. I also have not met Dr. Namaan but I will be sure to contact him soon as any personal advice for both my thesis and IRB would be greatly appreciated. I am aware of vote fuzzing as well, and thus am trying to put greater emphasis on replies as surefire way to construct a social network. The use of upvotes and downvotes are accounted for to add a supplemental measure that may account for lurkers. Thank you for the suggestions as well about Dr. Rothenbuhler's work. This looks immensely useful and I will definitely be reading it as soon as possible. I have recently submitted my IRB exemption form and I am hoping it works out well. I am crossing my fingers it will work out well. Thank you very much for all your help; it is immensely appreciated. Best Regards Charles Tong On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Tilton, Shane <tiltons@ohio.edu> wrote:
Charles,
I think the copyright point should be moot based upon the Fair Use argument that Kathie referred to earlier. The protection of the intellectual property should not be effected by your research. As for the IRB, Rutgers is worried about the harm your research is going to do to your research pool. AoIR has discussed IRB issues for years. The best answer is to fill out the exemption form at http://orsp.rutgers.edu/sites/orsp.rutgers.edu/files/irb_forms/IRB%20Exempt%... and be as clear as what your research is looking for.
As for previous research, look at Eric Rothenbuhler work on the cult of the celebrity and my work on Nanocelebrity.
Shane Tilton Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 26, 2012, at 11:25, "Charles Tong" <charles.t.tong@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello everyone,
Thank you so much for all the help. This is going to be astronomically helpful to me. I am currently scheduling an appointment with my university's legal services and my university's IRB to sort this further out. I will be sure to negotiate something out of this.
I am located in the US, and am currently going to Rutgers University. I apologize for not mentioning it in my first e-mail. The information that I am specifically gathering includes:
Username who posted (recoded into a number for anonymity) Total Karma for post Number of Upvotes and Downvotes received Number of Replies Who the post replied to The highest post in a reply hierarchy Content of post (if they are a celebrity) Whether the post is posted by the topic creator If the post is the topic post, the topic post’s content, and the topic’s title
Further, these data will be collected for each person listed as a “celebrity:” A celebrity is determined by those who receive at least 50 upvotes or downvotes
Total Karma Total Karma for that day (Link and Comment) Total Upvotes and Downvotes for that day Total posts during the day Number of replies received during the day
Does he nature of the information that I'm gathering violate the Copyright Act? Please let me know if any more information is needed.
Once again, thank you very much much for helping me with this project.
Best Regards, Charles Tong
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Dan L. Burk <dburk@uci.edu> wrote:
Er -- since we don't know what jurisdiction Charles is in, we can't say
whether fair use applies to him or not (or, for that matter, how
enforceable the Reddit ToS is against him).
It sounds like he might be located in the U.S. but that's a guess.
I also don't think we know enough about his research to say very much
about copyright/fair use. There are a lot of moving parts there. Just as
an example, it's not clear to me from his post what kind of data he is
gathering -- but the copyright in the "influential posts" he wants to
analyze may very well lie with the authors, not with Reddit.
(In which case, if his IRB wants informed consent from the participants,
he might end up with their authorization to copy the material as well.)
DLB
Charles,
You've got two separate issues here: copyright and IRB.
According to my understanding you should be able to use the data you're
collecting under the Fair Use clause. The TOS you copied below
specifically mentions commercial or unauthorized uses under copyright.
The
Fair Use clause states: "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including
such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means
specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news
reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use),
scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright." You need
to understand though that fair use is not a right, it's a "defensible
position", meaning that it is an acceptable defense in any legal action;
however, you would have to prove that your use of the material falls
under
the fair use clause in a courtroom if the company decides to challenge
your use of their data--it doesn't automatically negate the possibility
of
legal action.
There are a couple of things I'd suggest. First, you need to find out
what
your advisor will approve. They are directing your thesis and you need to
make sure any data you use meets with their approval. Second, most
university legal departments have some statement about what constitutes
fair use on their campus, so I'd check with them (but I'd say only if
your
advisor requires it--many universities actually have much stricter
policies on paper than are required under the Fair Use clause). Third,
I'd
look at the Ethics Guide from AOIR
(http://aoir.org/documents/ethics-guide/) and make sure you're working
within those guidelines. They've been developed by scholars who regularly
work with the type of data you're using, so you should make sure your
study works within those guidelines.
Regarding IRB, I agree with Charles. You should contact your university
IRB and find out what requirements they may have for exempt or non-exempt
status. Often departments or colleges within universities will have an
IRB
specialist that you can work with and who will help you fill out the
appropriate applications.
Good luck,
Kathie
On Oct 25, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Charles Tong wrote:
Hello AoIR,
My name is Charles Tong and I currently working on my undergraduate
thesis in Sociology. Specifically, I am trying to construct a social
network based on reddit.com by data-mining posts and comments from day
to day. I am specifically looking to identify how consistent influence
and power is created on the website. I hope to do this by constructing
multiple networks from day to day of specific sub-forums and
differentiating between those who are one-time stars and consistent
stars. Then I will perform a content analysis of certain influential
posts to determine what makes someone consistently powerful or not and
in what ways they are influential.
Unfortunately, I am unsure of how this will pass under IRB exemption.
I am hoping that anyone on the AoIR mailing list may have some insight
that may help. I have attempted to e-mail and get in contact with the
website numerous times, but each time, they have not responded. I
understand that I will have to send reddit.com’s user agreement.
The user agreement states the following:
“You may not in any way make commercial or other unauthorized use, by
publication, re-transmission, distribution, performance, caching, or
otherwise, of material obtained through the Website, including without
limitation the Assets or Website Content, except as permitted by the
Copyright Act or other law or as expressly permitted in writing by
this Agreement, Service Provider or the Website.”
I was wondering if anyone knows how to approach this specific issue. I
understand that Fair Use might permit this research under the
Copyright Act, but I am not sure of its nature.
Thank you very much in advance for your help. Let me know if any
additional information should be provided.
Best Regards,
Charles Tong
_______________________________________________
The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list
is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org
Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at:
http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers:
_______________________________________________
The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list
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Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at:
http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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University of California, Irvine
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Irvine, CA 92697-8000
Voice: (949) 824-9325
Fax: (949)824-7336
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Hi Charles -- I'm glad to hear that you are talking with legal services and with your IRB about your project. One of the issues you should discuss with the university counsel is that copyright does not extend to *facts* -- consequently many kinds of research data aren't subject to copyright at all. For example, in your list below, I doubt very much that numerical data such as the number of replies or the number of upvotes or downvotes could be said to constitute copyrightable subject matter. Some other items, such as the content of the post, probably are subject to copyright, and that is where you will want to focus in your discussion with the university counsel. Best of success with your project, DLB
Hello everyone,
Thank you so much for all the help. This is going to be astronomically helpful to me. I am currently scheduling an appointment with my university's legal services and my university's IRB to sort this further out. I will be sure to negotiate something out of this.
I am located in the US, and am currently going to Rutgers University. I apologize for not mentioning it in my first e-mail. The information that I am specifically gathering includes:
Username who posted (recoded into a number for anonymity) Total Karma for post Number of Upvotes and Downvotes received Number of Replies Who the post replied to The highest post in a reply hierarchy Content of post (if they are a celebrity) Whether the post is posted by the topic creator If the post is the topic post, the topic posts content, and the topics title
Further, these data will be collected for each person listed as a celebrity: A celebrity is determined by those who receive at least 50 upvotes or downvotes
Total Karma Total Karma for that day (Link and Comment) Total Upvotes and Downvotes for that day Total posts during the day Number of replies received during the day
Does he nature of the information that I'm gathering violate the Copyright Act? Please let me know if any more information is needed.
Once again, thank you very much much for helping me with this project.
Best Regards, Charles Tong
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Dan L. Burk <dburk@uci.edu> wrote:
Er -- since we don't know what jurisdiction Charles is in, we can't say whether fair use applies to him or not (or, for that matter, how enforceable the Reddit ToS is against him).
It sounds like he might be located in the U.S. but that's a guess.
I also don't think we know enough about his research to say very much about copyright/fair use. There are a lot of moving parts there. Just as an example, it's not clear to me from his post what kind of data he is gathering -- but the copyright in the "influential posts" he wants to analyze may very well lie with the authors, not with Reddit.
(In which case, if his IRB wants informed consent from the participants, he might end up with their authorization to copy the material as well.)
DLB
Charles,
You've got two separate issues here: copyright and IRB.
According to my understanding you should be able to use the data you're collecting under the Fair Use clause. The TOS you copied below specifically mentions commercial or unauthorized uses under copyright. The Fair Use clause states: "...the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright." You need to understand though that fair use is not a right, it's a "defensible position", meaning that it is an acceptable defense in any legal action; however, you would have to prove that your use of the material falls under the fair use clause in a courtroom if the company decides to challenge your use of their data--it doesn't automatically negate the possibility of legal action.
There are a couple of things I'd suggest. First, you need to find out what your advisor will approve. They are directing your thesis and you need to make sure any data you use meets with their approval. Second, most university legal departments have some statement about what constitutes fair use on their campus, so I'd check with them (but I'd say only if your advisor requires it--many universities actually have much stricter policies on paper than are required under the Fair Use clause). Third, I'd look at the Ethics Guide from AOIR (http://aoir.org/documents/ethics-guide/) and make sure you're working within those guidelines. They've been developed by scholars who regularly work with the type of data you're using, so you should make sure your study works within those guidelines.
Regarding IRB, I agree with Charles. You should contact your university IRB and find out what requirements they may have for exempt or non-exempt status. Often departments or colleges within universities will have an IRB specialist that you can work with and who will help you fill out the appropriate applications.
Good luck, Kathie
On Oct 25, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Charles Tong wrote:
Hello AoIR,
My name is Charles Tong and I currently working on my undergraduate thesis in Sociology. Specifically, I am trying to construct a social network based on reddit.com by data-mining posts and comments from day to day. I am specifically looking to identify how consistent influence and power is created on the website. I hope to do this by constructing multiple networks from day to day of specific sub-forums and differentiating between those who are one-time stars and consistent stars. Then I will perform a content analysis of certain influential posts to determine what makes someone consistently powerful or not and in what ways they are influential.
Unfortunately, I am unsure of how this will pass under IRB exemption. I am hoping that anyone on the AoIR mailing list may have some insight that may help. I have attempted to e-mail and get in contact with the website numerous times, but each time, they have not responded. I understand that I will have to send reddit.coms user agreement.
The user agreement states the following: You may not in any way make commercial or other unauthorized use, by publication, re-transmission, distribution, performance, caching, or otherwise, of material obtained through the Website, including without limitation the Assets or Website Content, except as permitted by the Copyright Act or other law or as expressly permitted in writing by this Agreement, Service Provider or the Website.
I was wondering if anyone knows how to approach this specific issue. I understand that Fair Use might permit this research under the Copyright Act, but I am not sure of its nature.
Thank you very much in advance for your help. Let me know if any additional information should be provided.
Best Regards, Charles Tong _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- School of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336 bits: dburk@uci.edu
-- School of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336 bits: dburk@uci.edu
participants (6)
-
Charles Tong -
Dan L. Burk -
Kathie Gossett -
Nathaniel Poor -
Peter Gloviczki -
Tilton, Shane