In answer to Mr Cornwell's commment (and possibly Dr Goddard's--since he said it was paraphrased I don't know what wording Dr Goddard used) that we are all half-blind on the internet, it is inappropriate and ableist to use the word blind to denote what appears from this post to mean wilful ignorance. By using that term in that way, you are arguing that just because blind people cannot see they are somehow less aware of the world around them than sighted people, which isn't true: just differently aware. The sort of wilful spin on it here just makes the ableism even worse. Perhaps we could use a term like oblivious or unaware instead. A thesaurus will provide you with many excellent options that do not cast aspersions on a particular group. Thank you in advance for your consideration in keeping AIR-L a friendly and non-discriminatory space for everyone. Kathy -- . . . connection in an isolating age . . . Katherine Mancuso, graduate student, Emory University Web 2.0 research, life, and meta: http://museumfreak.livejournal.com http://del.icio.us/museumfreak "Whenever anyone says 'You are,' they mean 'I want you to be.'" --Anais Nin
Kathy, I take your point. I can't speak for Ellis since I know he is reading these posts. I am unsure how or why you are using "ableist". There is nothing in what I wrote to suggest "ableism." You had to reach to get that flame. My point was that there is a disconnect between the affective perception of privacy and the reality of privacy. There is a disconnect between the need to be seen and the reality of being exposed. "Willful" is exactly opposite of my intent. "Unconscious" denial was intended. I think my quote of Ellis is more out of context than paraphrased. I read his work because he is influenced by Donald Black at UVA and I am fascinated by Blackian theories of "Pure Sociology." Black is a proponent of rigor in Sociology. My use of "blind" was to indicate the absence of a sensory modality I.E. can't see it all. It is a metaphor. I take exception to your labeling my comments as a "willful spin." I had no such intention. To say someone is "blind" carries no more connotation than saying someone is black, Hispanic, or a man. For me "oblivious" carries far more negative implications. I think your final paragraph is duplicitous and condescending in light of your "thanks." I'm assuming that this was "unconscious" and not willful. If you want to keep it friendly you should reexamine your own comments. Reid -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Mancuso Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 2:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: [Air-l] ableist language (was facebook) In answer to Mr Cornwell's commment (and possibly Dr Goddard's--since he said it was paraphrased I don't know what wording Dr Goddard used) that we are all half-blind on the internet, it is inappropriate and ableist to use the word blind to denote what appears from this post to mean wilful ignorance. By using that term in that way, you are arguing that just because blind people cannot see they are somehow less aware of the world around them than sighted people, which isn't true: just differently aware. The sort of wilful spin on it here just makes the ableism even worse. Perhaps we could use a term like oblivious or unaware instead. A thesaurus will provide you with many excellent options that do not cast aspersions on a particular group. Thank you in advance for your consideration in keeping AIR-L a friendly and non-discriminatory space for everyone. Kathy -- . . . connection in an isolating age . . . Katherine Mancuso, graduate student, Emory University Web 2.0 research, life, and meta: http://museumfreak.livejournal.com http://del.icio.us/museumfreak "Whenever anyone says 'You are,' they mean 'I want you to be.'" --Anais Nin _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
I'm all for respecting differences, and choosing words carefully. And I of course mean no offense in saying that I can't see your hair color, hair length, height, facial expressions, etcetera - nor that I am blinded to innumerable aspects of your appearance and behavior. As with optical blindness, I have a significant lack of (visual) awareness of many typically (and visually) observable matters. To infer from that I'm casting aspersions upon the visually impaired, is somewhere between insulting and inane. But I nonetheless appreciate your sparking a frustrated chuckle. ;) -eg
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Mancuso Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: [Air-l] ableist language (was facebook)
In answer to Mr Cornwell's commment (and possibly Dr Goddard's--since he said it was paraphrased I don't know what wording Dr Goddard used) that we are all half-blind on the internet, it is inappropriate and ableist to use the word blind to denote what appears from this post to mean wilful ignorance. By using that term in that way, you are arguing that just because blind people cannot see they are somehow less aware of the world around them than sighted people, which isn't true: just differently aware. The sort of wilful spin on it here just makes the ableism even worse.
Perhaps we could use a term like oblivious or unaware instead. A thesaurus will provide you with many excellent options that do not cast aspersions on a particular group. Thank you in advance for your consideration in keeping AIR-L a friendly and non-discriminatory space for everyone.
Kathy
-- . . . connection in an isolating age . . . Katherine Mancuso, graduate student, Emory University
Web 2.0 research, life, and meta: http://museumfreak.livejournal.com http://del.icio.us/museumfreak
"Whenever anyone says 'You are,' they mean 'I want you to be.'" --Anais Nin _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
who cares!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellis Godard" <egodard@csun.edu> To: <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Cc: <kmancuso@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [Air-l] ableist language (was facebook)
I'm all for respecting differences, and choosing words carefully. And I of course mean no offense in saying that I can't see your hair color, hair length, height, facial expressions, etcetera - nor that I am blinded to innumerable aspects of your appearance and behavior.
As with optical blindness, I have a significant lack of (visual) awareness of many typically (and visually) observable matters. To infer from that I'm casting aspersions upon the visually impaired, is somewhere between insulting and inane. But I nonetheless appreciate your sparking a frustrated chuckle. ;)
-eg
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Mancuso Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: [Air-l] ableist language (was facebook)
In answer to Mr Cornwell's commment (and possibly Dr Goddard's--since he said it was paraphrased I don't know what wording Dr Goddard used) that we are all half-blind on the internet, it is inappropriate and ableist to use the word blind to denote what appears from this post to mean wilful ignorance. By using that term in that way, you are arguing that just because blind people cannot see they are somehow less aware of the world around them than sighted people, which isn't true: just differently aware. The sort of wilful spin on it here just makes the ableism even worse.
Perhaps we could use a term like oblivious or unaware instead. A thesaurus will provide you with many excellent options that do not cast aspersions on a particular group. Thank you in advance for your consideration in keeping AIR-L a friendly and non-discriminatory space for everyone.
Kathy
-- . . . connection in an isolating age . . . Katherine Mancuso, graduate student, Emory University
Web 2.0 research, life, and meta: http://museumfreak.livejournal.com http://del.icio.us/museumfreak
"Whenever anyone says 'You are,' they mean 'I want you to be.'" --Anais Nin _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
again, i want everyone to use the list cautiously and with some taste. do not junk mail other people's email box with personal correspondences. if the message is intended for a specific person (such as kmancuso@gmail.com), consider sending the email to that person. only email the list with information that everyone will care to know. we all have a life and do not want to spend time screening through many junk emails. for those who do not have a life, GET ONE!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellis Godard" <egodard@csun.edu> To: <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Cc: <kmancuso@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [Air-l] ableist language (was facebook)
I'm all for respecting differences, and choosing words carefully. And I of course mean no offense in saying that I can't see your hair color, hair length, height, facial expressions, etcetera - nor that I am blinded to innumerable aspects of your appearance and behavior.
As with optical blindness, I have a significant lack of (visual) awareness of many typically (and visually) observable matters. To infer from that I'm casting aspersions upon the visually impaired, is somewhere between insulting and inane. But I nonetheless appreciate your sparking a frustrated chuckle. ;)
-eg
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Mancuso Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: [Air-l] ableist language (was facebook)
In answer to Mr Cornwell's commment (and possibly Dr Goddard's--since he said it was paraphrased I don't know what wording Dr Goddard used) that we are all half-blind on the internet, it is inappropriate and ableist to use the word blind to denote what appears from this post to mean wilful ignorance. By using that term in that way, you are arguing that just because blind people cannot see they are somehow less aware of the world around them than sighted people, which isn't true: just differently aware. The sort of wilful spin on it here just makes the ableism even worse.
Perhaps we could use a term like oblivious or unaware instead. A thesaurus will provide you with many excellent options that do not cast aspersions on a particular group. Thank you in advance for your consideration in keeping AIR-L a friendly and non-discriminatory space for everyone.
Kathy
-- . . . connection in an isolating age . . . Katherine Mancuso, graduate student, Emory University
Web 2.0 research, life, and meta: http://museumfreak.livejournal.com http://del.icio.us/museumfreak
"Whenever anyone says 'You are,' they mean 'I want you to be.'" --Anais Nin _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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Behavioral proscriptions and insults, are neither less junky nor better evidence of life, than discussions about verbiage to describe online behavior. Your priveleging of normative discussion versus discussion of Internet Research is interesting. A successful theory of online behavior would explain why that's common on this list. -eg
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of KQ-AMAZON Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:28 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] ableist language (was facebook)
again, i want everyone to use the list cautiously and with some taste. do not junk mail other people's email box with personal correspondences.
if the message is intended for a specific person (such as kmancuso@gmail.com), consider sending the email to that person.
only email the list with information that everyone will care to know.
we all have a life and do not want to spend time screening through many junk emails.
for those who do not have a life, GET ONE!!
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ellis Godard" <egodard@csun.edu> To: <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Cc: <kmancuso@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:34 AM Subject: Re: [Air-l] ableist language (was facebook)
I'm all for respecting differences, and choosing words carefully. And I of course mean no offense in saying that I can't see your hair color, hair length, height, facial expressions, etcetera - nor that I am blinded to innumerable aspects of your appearance and behavior.
As with optical blindness, I have a significant lack of (visual) awareness of many typically (and visually) observable matters. To infer from that I'm casting aspersions upon the visually impaired, is somewhere between insulting and inane. But I nonetheless appreciate your sparking a frustrated chuckle. ;)
-eg
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Mancuso Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 1:21 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: [Air-l] ableist language (was facebook)
In answer to Mr Cornwell's commment (and possibly Dr Goddard's--since he said it was paraphrased I don't know what wording Dr Goddard used) that we are all half-blind on the internet, it is inappropriate and ableist to use the word blind to denote what appears from this post to mean wilful ignorance. By using that term in that way, you are arguing that just because blind people cannot see they are somehow less aware of the world around them than sighted people, which isn't true: just differently aware. The sort of wilful spin on it here just makes the ableism even worse.
Perhaps we could use a term like oblivious or unaware instead. A thesaurus will provide you with many excellent options that do not cast aspersions on a particular group. Thank you in advance for your consideration in keeping AIR-L a friendly and non-discriminatory space for everyone.
Kathy
-- . . . connection in an isolating age . . . Katherine Mancuso, graduate student, Emory University
Web 2.0 research, life, and meta: http://museumfreak.livejournal.com http://del.icio.us/museumfreak
"Whenever anyone says 'You are,' they mean 'I want you to be.'" --Anais Nin _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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participants (4)
-
Dr. W. Reid Cornwell -
Ellis Godard -
Kathy Mancuso -
KQ-AMAZON