To Jon (and all interested) On your "love of truth" argument I think this has been wisely addressed by Lori, Ed, and Jennifer. Temperamentally, I prefer overt research, and happily, this type gains easier approval from IRB's, and has advantages that Lori points out for getting at certain meanings through interviewing. I would agree with Ed who says there could be cases more amenable to covert research, and add that I believe we as researchers usually engage informally in covert observation before deciding to research a particular area. On this point: "Privacy and public are social constructs and vague and often contradictory. This is simply a 'fact' as far as i'm concerned, and i'm a bit surprised that some people don't percieve it -" I am not sure we don't perceive the vagueness, and yet there are other dimensions of this area to explore. For example, does it matter how public or private the participants perceive the setting, and also, how do we resolve the almost inevitable conflict between the member's desire for privacy and the researcher's desire for data? I do agree that there is no one answer to these questions, and yet I believe they are worth pursuing. --andrea baker (andee)