When I'll be in jail....
will you take me some cookies ? Hi list I am joking of course. But who knows ? This post is to inform you that I have just started a new research I call "Hate on the Net". It's about a phenomenon which is quite widespread on the Internet. Have a look here: http://www.theneworder.org/ just to name one. Or here: http://www.hizbollah.tv/ I think that it is time to do a research like that (hoping not to be tracked down as terrorist or neonazi by the "Agencies"). Any suggestion - about books or essays - will be appreciated (for now). Cookies will be either (just in case....) Regards Antonio -- "I may have invented it, but Bill made it famous" David Bradley, 'Ctrl+Alt+Delete' inventor.
I don't particularly wish to get involved in a discussion about the rights and wrongs of Israel, but to call Hizbollah a "hate organisation" in the same vein as the Neo-Nazis is rather disingenuous to say the least. After all, Hizbollah are a response to an invasion by Israel. Furthermore, this smacks of one-sidedness - have you never heard the views of Israeli "settlers" (colonists)? Perhaps you could take a look at Israeli hate organisations too, Gamla (http://www.gamla.org.il/english/index.htm) for example? I understand that perhaps you are unaware of the reality of the situation as the Western media has been so biased itself (see Greg Philo's research at the University of Glasgow - www.gla.ac.uk/departments/sociology/Israel.pdf for example), but if you really want to do something original, then try balance. In terms of research already conducted, see Michael Whine's work (interesting but heavilty biased) in the book "Liberating Cyberspace". A very interesting attempt to research hate on the net is Ken McVay's Nizkor Project www.nizkor.org/ Antonio Roversi wrote:
will you take me some cookies ?
Hi list
I am joking of course. But who knows ? This post is to inform you that I have just started a new research I call "Hate on the Net". It's about a phenomenon which is quite widespread on the Internet. Have a look here:
just to name one. Or here:
I think that it is time to do a research like that (hoping not to be tracked down as terrorist or neonazi by the "Agencies"). Any suggestion - about books or essays - will be appreciated (for now). Cookies will be either (just in case....)
Regards
Antonio
-- Lee Salter School of Law, Governance and International Relations London Metropolitan University, 62-66 Highbury Grove, London, N5 2AD
Dear Salter,
I don't particularly wish to get involved in a discussion about the rights and wrongs of Israel, but to call Hizbollah a "hate organisation" in the same vein as the Neo-Nazis is rather disingenuous to say the least.
It seems, Mr Salter, that it is you who is disengenuous. I agree that this is not the forum to discuss the Middle-East and I note that you did not write "Middle East" but the "rights and wrongs of Israel".
After all, Hizbollah are a response to an invasion by Israel. I am afraid this statement shows a lack of understanding about Middle East politics. I respect the fact that this is not the forum, but if you are interested in a balanced view, I respectfully suggest you begin reading the many authoritative books on the subject which will clearly show that from the May 1948, when the State of Israel was declared by the UN, Israel has been in a state of war and has been attacked many times by her enemies. To maintain that Hizbollah is an organisation, a response to an invasion, is a perverse statement reflecting sadly the bias. Hizbollah and other terrorist organisations which include Osama bin Ladin make clear their policies: the destruction and annihilation of the State of Israel.
Allow me also to make clear that this extreme view is exactly that and that Arab and Jew do co-exist in Israel when allowed. It is also evi While I believe that every individual has a right to express his/her opinion, what is unacceptable is the misreporting, the misunderstanding and the bias against any country or any individual, the psychological of which is important to acknowledge and understanding. -- _ __ ___ ___ ________________________________________________ | '__|/ \ / __| / Rosalind M. Share M.A. roz@lupus-support.org.uk | | | | \__ \ / LUpus Patients Understanding & Support |_| \___/ |___/ / http://www.lupus-support.org.uk LuPUS MB: http://www.lupus-forums.org.uk
Dear Rosalind (and all), Like I said, I didn't want to get into this "debate", but hope that I will be allowed the liberty to respond to this comment. 1. By "the rights and wrongs of Israel" I meant exactly what you have lead on to - Hizbollah's position on the existence of Israel - which is, whether one likes it or not, beyond discussion. Whilst Hizbollah may well have had right on their side (note "may"), the call for the destruction of Israel is simply untenable. 2. As an atheist, I think that the Party of God are not particularly desirable, for Islamists have a greater objection to atheists than to Christians or Jews (of course, the Muslim world has traditionally treated Jews far better than the Christian world has). My attempt to encourage more balanced treatment of the Arab-Israeli conflict and not to conflate hate groups was not a defence of an organisation that would not tolerate me. 3. I'm sorry if you think history should be rewritten, but Hizbollah simply were formed as a response to the invasion of Lebanon by Israel, what can I say? (if you consult Israeli intelligence web sites, they will confirm this - though of course they don't call it an invasion) 4. My first substantive point was that Hizbollah is a very different sort of organisation than "New Order" and to simply refer to the former as a "hate group" in the same vein as the latter is not accurate or helpful (whatever our personal views on the subject). Further, the ground on which the two groups operate is, as we know, very different too. This is not to take sides, but to point out the important differences. 5. My second substantive point was that the all too common focus on one side of the conflict again reduces the nuance with which any situation should be treated. Not only are there the Zionist "hate" groups which I provided a link to, but there are also Jewish "hate" groups such as Neturei Karta (http://www.nkusa.org/) (or Satmar) consisting of Orthodox Jews who call for the dissolution of Israel. 6. My third point was that the concept of "hate" is something that is too easily used in Internet research bunching together all sorts of people whose primary motivation is probably not hate. No, that does not mean that I like them, but if one of my students were hand in an essay that described any group as simply a "hate" group, they wouldn't get very far - why then should academics be allowed this privilege? Best, Lee Rosalind M. Share wrote:
Dear Salter,
I don't particularly wish to get involved in a discussion about the rights and wrongs of Israel, but to call Hizbollah a "hate organisation" in the same vein as the Neo-Nazis is rather disingenuous to say the least.
It seems, Mr Salter, that it is you who is disengenuous. I agree that this is not the forum to discuss the Middle-East and I note that you did not write "Middle East" but the "rights and wrongs of Israel".
After all, Hizbollah are a response to an invasion by Israel.
I am afraid this statement shows a lack of understanding about Middle East politics. I respect the fact that this is not the forum, but if you are interested in a balanced view, I respectfully suggest you begin reading the many authoritative books on the subject which will clearly show that from the May 1948, when the State of Israel was declared by the UN, Israel has been in a state of war and has been attacked many times by her enemies. To maintain that Hizbollah is an organisation, a response to an invasion, is a perverse statement reflecting sadly the bias. Hizbollah and other terrorist organisations which include Osama bin Ladin make clear their policies: the destruction and annihilation of the State of Israel.
Allow me also to make clear that this extreme view is exactly that and that Arab and Jew do co-exist in Israel when allowed. It is also evi
While I believe that every individual has a right to express his/her opinion, what is unacceptable is the misreporting, the misunderstanding and the bias against any country or any individual, the psychological of which is important to acknowledge and understanding.
-- Lee Salter School of Law, Governance and International Relations London Metropolitan University, 62-66 Highbury Grove, London, N5 2AD
Antonio, There has been a tendency in recent times to equate hate and terrorist organizations. This is particularly evident in research into terrorism and the Internet, terrorist use of the Net, cyberterrorism, or whatever you like to call it. It is unclear to me, however, why Brigitte Nacos, Harvey Kushner, and others persist in lumping these groups and their Web sites together, as a glance at the various sites reveals stark differences--in terms of appearance, functioning, effectiveness, etc.-- between sites maintained by hate groups and those maintained by terrorist organizations. This is particularly true if one confines one's analysis to English-language sites. Regards, Maura At 22:06 03/06/2004 +0100, you wrote:
I don't particularly wish to get involved in a discussion about the rights and wrongs of Israel, but to call Hizbollah a "hate organisation" in the same vein as the Neo-Nazis is rather disingenuous to say the least. After all, Hizbollah are a response to an invasion by Israel. Furthermore, this smacks of one-sidedness - have you never heard the views of Israeli "settlers" (colonists)? Perhaps you could take a look at Israeli hate organisations too, Gamla (http://www.gamla.org.il/english/index.htm) for example? I understand that perhaps you are unaware of the reality of the situation as the Western media has been so biased itself (see Greg Philo's research at the University of Glasgow - www.gla.ac.uk/departments/sociology/Israel.pdf for example), but if you really want to do something original, then try balance.
In terms of research already conducted, see Michael Whine's work (interesting but heavilty biased) in the book "Liberating Cyberspace". A very interesting attempt to research hate on the net is Ken McVay's Nizkor Project www.nizkor.org/
Antonio Roversi wrote:
will you take me some cookies ?
Hi list
I am joking of course. But who knows ? This post is to inform you that I have just started a new research I call "Hate on the Net". It's about a phenomenon which is quite widespread on the Internet. Have a look here:
just to name one. Or here:
I think that it is time to do a research like that (hoping not to be tracked down as terrorist or neonazi by the "Agencies"). Any suggestion - about books or essays - will be appreciated (for now). Cookies will be either (just in case....)
Regards
Antonio
-- Lee Salter School of Law, Governance and International Relations London Metropolitan University, 62-66 Highbury Grove, London, N5 2AD
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Maura Conway Teaching Fellow School of International Relations University of St. Andrews St Andrews KY16 9AL Scotland Tel.: +44 (0)1334 462939 Fax.: +44 (0)1334 462937 E-mail: mc52@st-andrews.ac.uk
participants (4)
-
Antonio Roversi -
Lee Salter -
Maura Conway -
Rosalind M. Share