Re: [Air-L] (advice sought) Public safety and configuration of list
Joseph Lorenzo Hall said:
... if you don't accept the decision of the list members ...
Maybe there's a misunderstanding here. The list subscribers are not responsible for the safe administration of the list. The university alone is responsible. It could never pass that responsibility on to the subscribers, even if it wanted to.
... to appeal to higher authorities that have much better things on which to spend their time ...
Well, it was university staff who appealed to counsel some weeks ago, following an off-list discussion. As I mention, the university is evaluating the matter and has yet to make a decision. My purpose in posting is to ask advice from experts, and to remind the counsel's office (a busy place, as you say) of the need for a decision. Again, pending that decision, I recommend that the configuration be returned to its default setting. The default is known to be safe. Mike Joseph Lorenzo Hall said:
I would suggest if you don't accept the decision of the list members to keep reply-to-list, you should not subscribe. It seems silly to raise it again and attempt to appeal to higher authorities that have much better things on which to spend their time than mediate disputes about mailing list policy. (I initiated the recent policy discussion of the mailing list configuration and accept the results, despite not agreeing with the decision (not on safety grounds).)
best, Joe
-- Joseph Lorenzo Hall Senior Staff Technologist Center for Democracy & Technology 1634 I ST NW STE 1100 Washington DC 20006-4011 (p) 202-407-8825 (f) 202-637-0968 joe@cdt.org PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Michael Allan <mike@zelea.com> wrote:
Joseph Lorenzo Hall said:
Please don't reply-all on private mail (what this appears to be - interim mails did not go to Air-L), and then include lists in the CC line. It's unethical and just makes other list members very, very cranky. As does any thread that suggests changing the reply-to bit on any list. That aside - this ought to be a dead issue. Don't use mailing lists with archives for private or might-need-to-be-private correspondence that might endanger lives or well-being of others. The information *will* leak. In fact - I would suggest not using mail for this sort of issue at all, regardless of whether it's a list or has archives or not. The trail of cleartext bits and routing information is too easily exploited. best, --e
Additionally, sending one email to multiple lists is uncouth. Send separate emails and apologize for crossposting if you must. On Apr 23, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Elijah Wright wrote:
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Michael Allan <mike@zelea.com> wrote:
Joseph Lorenzo Hall said:
Please don't reply-all on private mail (what this appears to be - interim mails did not go to Air-L), and then include lists in the CC line.
It's unethical and just makes other list members very, very cranky. As does any thread that suggests changing the reply-to bit on any list.
That aside - this ought to be a dead issue. Don't use mailing lists with archives for private or might-need-to-be-private correspondence that might endanger lives or well-being of others. The information *will* leak. In fact - I would suggest not using mail for this sort of issue at all, regardless of whether it's a list or has archives or not. The trail of cleartext bits and routing information is too easily exploited.
best,
--e _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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Additionally, sending one email to multiple lists is uncouth. Send separate emails and apologize for crossposting if you must. On Apr 23, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Elijah Wright wrote: On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Michael Allan <mike@zelea.com> wrote: Joseph Lorenzo Hall said: Please don't reply-all on private mail (what this appears to be - interim mails did not go to Air-L), and then include lists in the CC line. It's unethical and just makes other list members very, very cranky. As does any thread that suggests changing the reply-to bit on any list. That aside - this ought to be a dead issue. Don't use mailing lists with archives for private or might-need-to-be-private correspondence that might endanger lives or well-being of others. The information *will* leak. In fact - I would suggest not using mail for this sort of issue at all, regardless of whether it's a list or has archives or not. The trail of cleartext bits and routing information is too easily exploited. best, --e _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Additionally, sending one email to multiple lists is uncouth. Send separate emails and apologize for crossposting if you must. On Apr 23, 2013, at 2:02 PM, Elijah Wright wrote:
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Michael Allan <mike@zelea.com> wrote:
Joseph Lorenzo Hall said:
Please don't reply-all on private mail (what this appears to be - interim mails did not go to Air-L), and then include lists in the CC line.
It's unethical and just makes other list members very, very cranky. As does any thread that suggests changing the reply-to bit on any list.
That aside - this ought to be a dead issue. Don't use mailing lists with archives for private or might-need-to-be-private correspondence that might endanger lives or well-being of others. The information *will* leak. In fact - I would suggest not using mail for this sort of issue at all, regardless of whether it's a list or has archives or not. The trail of cleartext bits and routing information is too easily exploited.
best,
--e _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
actually, usually, email users are responsible for their use of email, on a list or off, so they are responsible for knowing the settings and adapting their behaviors to them. the locus of action of the list is the user, the administrator just sets the terms. On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 4:39 PM, Michael Allan <mike@zelea.com> wrote:
Joseph Lorenzo Hall said:
... if you don't accept the decision of the list members ...
Maybe there's a misunderstanding here. The list subscribers are not responsible for the safe administration of the list. The university alone is responsible. It could never pass that responsibility on to the subscribers, even if it wanted to.
... to appeal to higher authorities that have much better things on which to spend their time ...
Well, it was university staff who appealed to counsel some weeks ago, following an off-list discussion. As I mention, the university is evaluating the matter and has yet to make a decision. My purpose in posting is to ask advice from experts, and to remind the counsel's office (a busy place, as you say) of the need for a decision.
Again, pending that decision, I recommend that the configuration be returned to its default setting. The default is known to be safe.
Mike
Joseph Lorenzo Hall said:
I would suggest if you don't accept the decision of the list members to keep reply-to-list, you should not subscribe. It seems silly to raise it again and attempt to appeal to higher authorities that have much better things on which to spend their time than mediate disputes about mailing list policy. (I initiated the recent policy discussion of the mailing list configuration and accept the results, despite not agreeing with the decision (not on safety grounds).)
best, Joe
-- Joseph Lorenzo Hall Senior Staff Technologist Center for Democracy & Technology 1634 I ST NW STE 1100 Washington DC 20006-4011 (p) 202-407-8825 (f) 202-637-0968 joe@cdt.org PGP: https://josephhall.org/gpg-key
The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
participants (4)
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Elijah Wright -
Jeremy hunsinger -
live -
Michael Allan