Re: [Air-l] Permissions for web images that no longer exist
Interesting suggestion, but unclear what the point may be. Copyright liability is strict in the U.S. and other jurisditions with which I am familiar; for liability to attach it doesn't really matter whether you engaged in good faith efforts to find the copyright holder or not. In the U.S., once you've lost an infringement suit, I suppose that the paper trail might allow you to avoid an increased damage award for willful infringement under the 504(c)(2) statutory damages provision. But at the same time it suggests that you knew or should have known the material was protected by copyright, so that you coudn't raise the 504(c) "innocent infringer" defense to get lowered damages. In fact, it may be that the paper trail *demonstrates* that the infringement was willful. So this practice appears to cut both ways, not necessarily to your advantage. DLB P.S. Disclaimer again. On 27 Apr 2005, Gilbert B. Rodman wrote:
If the publisher wants you to get permissions, but you've got not ready access to the permission holders (or even any sense who those might be), there's always the sort of notice/disclaimer that reads something like: "every effort has been made to secure permission for use of copyrighted materials. in the event of a copyright query, please contact the publishers." Your publisher may not want to do that, but it's a common enough practice that it's worth asking about. If nothing else, it helps to demonstrate that you did, in fact, engage in good faith efforts to locate
relevant copyright holder -- especially if you keep a paper/e-mail trail of those efforts.
cheers gil
At 4/27/2005 @ 01:03 AM, you wrote:
Hi all,
I've run up against a problem that has my publisher stumped as well. If you're publishing a book or journal article and want to use pictures from a Web site, and you have the pictures but the site is no longer in existence, do you need permission? How would you handle this?
And also, what is the site still exists, but all emails to the authors of the site bounce?
Any help or pointers of where to look would be greatly appreciated. thanks! Mia
Mia Consalvo, Ph.D. Kohei Miura Visiting Professor Department of Communication, College of Humanities Chubu University Japan
Permanent address: Ohio University School of Telecommunications Athens, Ohio 45701 USA
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Dan L. Burk Visiting Professor Cornell Law School Myron Taylor Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 USA Oppenheimer, Wolff & Donnelly Professor University of Minnesota Law School 229 19th Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55455 USA *************************************** Voice: 612-626-8726 Fax: 612-625-2011 bits: burkx006@umn.e
All fair enough and that makes good sense. And I'm not a lawyer (I don't even play one on TV). I was simply noting that there *is* an existing practice in the publishing industry that seems to deal with the sort of conundrum Mia's describing. I know that not all publishers follow this practice, though, and suspect that the ones who avoid it do so for precisely the sort of reasons that Dan suggests. Cheers Gil At 4/27/2005 @ 08:28 AM, you wrote:
Interesting suggestion, but unclear what the point may be. Copyright liability is strict in the U.S. and other jurisditions with which I am familiar; for liability to attach it doesn't really matter whether you engaged in good faith efforts to find the copyright holder or not.
In the U.S., once you've lost an infringement suit, I suppose that the paper trail might allow you to avoid an increased damage award for willful infringement under the 504(c)(2) statutory damages provision. But at the same time it suggests that you knew or should have known the material was protected by copyright, so that you coudn't raise the 504(c) "innocent infringer" defense to get lowered damages. In fact, it may be that the paper trail *demonstrates* that the infringement was willful. So this practice appears to cut both ways, not necessarily to your advantage.
DLB
P.S. Disclaimer again.
On 27 Apr 2005, Gilbert B. Rodman wrote:
If the publisher wants you to get permissions, but you've got not ready access to the permission holders (or even any sense who those might be), there's always the sort of notice/disclaimer that reads something like: "every effort has been made to secure permission for use of copyrighted materials. in the event of a copyright query, please contact the publishers." Your publisher may not want to do that, but it's a common enough practice that it's worth asking about. If nothing else, it helps to demonstrate that you did, in fact, engage in good faith efforts to locate
relevant copyright holder -- especially if you keep a paper/e-mail trail of those efforts.
cheers gil
At 4/27/2005 @ 01:03 AM, you wrote:
Hi all,
I've run up against a problem that has my publisher stumped as well. If you're publishing a book or journal article and want to use pictures from a Web site, and you have the pictures but the site is no longer in existence, do you need permission? How would you handle this?
And also, what is the site still exists, but all emails to the authors of the site bounce?
Any help or pointers of where to look would be greatly appreciated. thanks! Mia
Mia Consalvo, Ph.D. Kohei Miura Visiting Professor Department of Communication, College of Humanities Chubu University Japan
Permanent address: Ohio University School of Telecommunications Athens, Ohio 45701 USA
_______________________________________________ The Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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Dan L. Burk Visiting Professor Cornell Law School Myron Taylor Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 USA
Oppenheimer, Wolff & Donnelly Professor University of Minnesota Law School 229 19th Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55455 USA *************************************** Voice: 612-626-8726 Fax: 612-625-2011 bits: burkx006@umn.e
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one of my daily reads Jim Romensko's obscure store just moved from being an independently designed newsite to a typepad blog. this struck me immediately as a devaluation of the site because it had become 'just another blog', whereas before It was a uniquely designed news-site that people had to visit to read. In that they had to visit it to read it, it was experienced as a whole, and its parts were always in relation to one another as organized on the page, which gave some added value. designwise i think the argument is obvious and has been made many times about the 'value-added' of good design and layout, however, the thing with blogs is that we can read them via rss and we never need to see the original design at all, or perhaps we need to see it once in a while, but certainly not every day. Also, when blogs are read via rss, they parts need not be read in direction relation to each other as a whole, but can be read mixed with unlimited other blog-feeds, in the romenesko case, i think this lowers the overall sense of irony and humor involved. I'm wondering if other people are exploring this aspect of perceived value in blogging as compared to other online media, and if so, are there any studies available, and if not, would someone be interested in working on developing a project in this direction.
The drive towards blogging is facilitated, IMO, by the perceived ease of use of blogging software. This isn't a new trend, of course, but it is becoming more obviously observable through the blogging world. Because the basic denominator of a blog is posts done in reverse chronological order, blogging lends itself to news and one-way communications such as editorial columns, corporate news, press releases, and the like. The speed with which one can quickly get a message out using blogging software is unparalleled at the moment. Say what you might about Wikis but they aren't as easy to use as most blogging software and solutions from Blogger and Typepad feel a lot like using Microsoft Word. As for the concept of pushing your message to users through RSS rather than pulling them to your site to get your messages within a certain context, it would seem that once again, the pendulum has swung back to the push. Again, not a new phenomenon. I've seen it fluctuate back and forth over my years of working in corporate communications. Do we email them the information or just post it to the intranet? The tradeoffs in each are what usually start the pendulum swinging again. What I'd like to see a study explore is the ego/vanity aspects of blogging. I blog, but I do it more to sort out my own thoughts and catalogue sites and interesting net phenomenon. I don t' care as much about whether I get readers or not. However, I suspect many do care and I have to wonder if the wholesale adoption of RSS feeds pushed out to people are an attempt to feel your blogging time is justified by ensuring that your message is getting out there. Those are a few of my random thoughts on this phenomenon. Tamara Paradis jeremy hunsinger wrote:
one of my daily reads Jim Romensko's obscure store just moved from being an independently designed newsite to a typepad blog. this struck me immediately as a devaluation of the site because it had become 'just another blog', whereas before It was a uniquely designed news-site that people had to visit to read. In that they had to visit it to read it, it was experienced as a whole, and its parts were always in relation to one another as organized on the page, which gave some added value. designwise i think the argument is obvious and has been made many times about the 'value-added' of good design and layout, however, the thing with blogs is that we can read them via rss and we never need to see the original design at all, or perhaps we need to see it once in a while, but certainly not every day. Also, when blogs are read via rss, they parts need not be read in direction relation to each other as a whole, but can be read mixed with unlimited other blog-feeds, in the romenesko case, i think this lowers the overall sense of irony and humor involved.
I'm wondering if other people are exploring this aspect of perceived value in blogging as compared to other online media, and if so, are there any studies available, and if not, would someone be interested in working on developing a project in this direction.
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005, Sashay wrote:
What I'd like to see a study explore is the ego/vanity aspects of blogging. I blog, but I do it more to sort out my own thoughts and catalogue sites and interesting net phenomenon. I don t' care as much about whether I get readers or not. However, I suspect many do care and I have to wonder if the wholesale adoption of RSS feeds pushed out to people are an attempt to feel your blogging time is justified by ensuring that your message is getting out there.
- Not to play the devil's advocate (which is some sort of a rhetorical trope since that's what I'm doing) - I have a feeling perhaps even the majority of bloggers would say the same. Why catalog online if not for open readership? I think there may be a distancing effect here; I remember a report years ago that the majority of workers who were interviewed said their jobs were temporary, even though they might have been at the same place for years. - Alan, blurring sociology with bad memory here
Good points Alan. The reason I personally catalogue online is because the tools blogger provides me to do so are much easier and more readily available from anywhere in the world than anything else that I can buy and install for private use on my own laptop. The fact that my words are posted out for anyone to see is interesting, Yes it certainly does affect the style with which I write to some extent, but the private/public aspect of it is less important as the speed and ease of the blogging system itself. Perhaps then another interesting point to explore in all of this is just that - the blurring or downplaying of importance between the public and the private, or put another way, between the personal and the public. Tamara Alan Sondheim wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005, Sashay wrote:
What I'd like to see a study explore is the ego/vanity aspects of blogging. I blog, but I do it more to sort out my own thoughts and catalogue sites and interesting net phenomenon. I don t' care as much about whether I get readers or not. However, I suspect many do care and I have to wonder if the wholesale adoption of RSS feeds pushed out to people are an attempt to feel your blogging time is justified by ensuring that your message is getting out there.
- Not to play the devil's advocate (which is some sort of a rhetorical trope since that's what I'm doing) - I have a feeling perhaps even the majority of bloggers would say the same. Why catalog online if not for open readership? I think there may be a distancing effect here; I remember a report years ago that the majority of workers who were interviewed said their jobs were temporary, even though they might have been at the same place for years.
- Alan, blurring sociology with bad memory here\
Along these lines - has anyone worked with diagrammatic tools such as FreeMind or Ted Nelson's ZigZag? I'd really like to hear about their experiences. Thanks, Alan http://www.asondheim.org/ nettext at http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ partial backup at http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm Books: Vel (Blazevox) The Wayward (Vox) Sophia (Writers Forum) .echo (Alt-X)
Hi Tamara, My own blogging practice and motives are much more akin with yours Tamara. I think that one of the advantages of imagining that there "might" be a readership but not being entirely concerned if there is one or not, can help to formulate your thinking as a process in itself. I used to use a technique in journalling where I imagined myself writing for someone and had an image in mind of who that person was. I think this is one of the playful aspects of blogging and writing in general. With blogs this is particularly powerful since it blurs the line between imagined community and existing community. The idea that it is a solitary and self-reflective exercise and that it also published and may interest others and be read by others is not mutually exclusive. Cheers, Justine On 4/28/05, Alan Sondheim <sondheim@panix.com> wrote:
Along these lines - has anyone worked with diagrammatic tools such as FreeMind or Ted Nelson's ZigZag? I'd really like to hear about their experiences.
Thanks, Alan
http://www.asondheim.org/ nettext at http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ partial backup at http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm Books: Vel (Blazevox) The Wayward (Vox) Sophia (Writers Forum) .echo (Alt-X) _______________________________________________ The Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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Hi, Tamara, Justine, et al., In my recently complete MA thesis, I also discuss the "imagined audience" of bloggers from a phenomenological and social interactional perspective: I believe this is crucial for understanding the motivation of bloggers to publicize their unfolding thoughts, as well as being critical for conceptualizing the "meaning" that bloggers give to the lived, situated, social, and even political experiences of blogging. While I've only got the abstract and table of contents online so far, I could send you my thesis in a pdf format if you'd like: http://www.sfu.ca/~mavieta/Current_Research/ MA_Thesis_Abstract_&_Contents.pdf . I discuss the "intended audience" of bloggers mostly in Chapter 4 but also do so in several other spots throughout my thesis. -^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^- Marcelo A. Vieta, BA First Class Honours Communication, MA Communication PhD Candidate in Social and Political Thought, York University Research Interests :: The technological predicament and the self p:: +1.416.940.0340 | e:: vieta@yorku.ca | w:: www.sfu.ca/~mavieta "The body is our general medium for having a world. ...[O]ur senses question things...and things reply to them." ~Merleau-Ponty, _The Phenomenology of Perception_ On 28 Apr 2005, at 00:54, Justine Humphry wrote:
Hi Tamara,
My own blogging practice and motives are much more akin with yours Tamara. I think that one of the advantages of imagining that there "might" be a readership but not being entirely concerned if there is one or not, can help to formulate your thinking as a process in itself. I used to use a technique in journalling where I imagined myself writing for someone and had an image in mind of who that person was. I think this is one of the playful aspects of blogging and writing in general. With blogs this is particularly powerful since it blurs the line between imagined community and existing community. The idea that it is a solitary and self-reflective exercise and that it also published and may interest others and be read by others is not mutually exclusive.
Cheers, Justine
On 4/28/05, Alan Sondheim <sondheim@panix.com> wrote:
Along these lines - has anyone worked with diagrammatic tools such as FreeMind or Ted Nelson's ZigZag? I'd really like to hear about their experiences.
Thanks, Alan
http://www.asondheim.org/ nettext at http://biblioteknett.no/alias/HJEMMESIDE/bjornmag/nettext/ WVU 2004 projects: http://www.as.wvu.edu/clcold/sondheim/ partial backup at http://www.as.wvu.edu:8000/clc/Members/sondheim Trace projects at http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm Books: Vel (Blazevox) The Wayward (Vox) Sophia (Writers Forum) .echo (Alt-X) _______________________________________________ The Air-l-aoir.org@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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Why not do a whois search on the owners of the site (http://www.networksolutions.com/en_US/whois/index.jhtml) and try sending a letter of request to the registered site owner? ******************************************** Joanne Jacobs Consultant: E-Commerce, E-Marketing & Communications Policy Phone: (07) 3868 3134 Mobile: 0419 131 077 Email: joanne@joannejacobs.net Internet: http://joannejacobs.net/ ********************************************
participants (8)
-
Alan Sondheim -
Dan L Burk -
Gilbert B. Rodman -
jeremy hunsinger -
Joanne Jacobs -
Justine Humphry -
Marcelo Vieta -
Sashay