I may have asked this before (I know I've at least raised the issue elsewhere, perhaps not here), but anyone how or when mailing lists became "listserves"? The etymological origin is probably ListServ (with MajorDomo, one of the leading mailing list software programs) and "list server", that beast which manages mailing lists. Was the adoption vague and gradual, or is there someone to whom blame (credit?) can be pinned? -eg
In the DOS era - before Windows - all file names were 8 characters long, so listserve.exe would have been truncated to listserv.exe. Probably the reason it is 8 characters long. Who did it? Who wrote it? No idea... Alex Randall - survivor of DOS 1.0 in 1981... ----- Original Message ----- From: Ellis Godard To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:02 AM Subject: [Air-l] "listserve" I may have asked this before (I know I've at least raised the issue elsewhere, perhaps not here), but anyone how or when mailing lists became "listserves"? The etymological origin is probably ListServ (with MajorDomo, one of the leading mailing list software programs) and "list server", that beast which manages mailing lists. Was the adoption vague and gradual, or is there someone to whom blame (credit?) can be pinned? -eg _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Actually this comes from an IBM Mainframe restruction. Eric Thomas who wrote Listserv wrote it as a VM application back in 1986. The application was really BITNET-centric and so limited by IBM coding restrictions. For Eric's version of history see: http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/history_listserv.asp On Tue, 29 May 2007, Alex -Vipowernet wrote: +In the DOS era - before Windows - all file names were 8 characters long, +so listserve.exe would have been truncated to listserv.exe. Probably the +reason it is 8 characters long. Who did it? Who wrote it? No idea... + +Alex Randall - survivor of DOS 1.0 in 1981... + + ----- Original Message ----- + From: Ellis Godard + To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org + Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:02 AM + Subject: [Air-l] "listserve" + + + I may have asked this before (I know I've at least raised the issue + elsewhere, perhaps not here), but anyone how or when mailing lists became + "listserves"? The etymological origin is probably ListServ (with MajorDomo, + one of the leading mailing list software programs) and "list server", that + beast which manages mailing lists. Was the adoption vague and gradual, or is + there someone to whom blame (credit?) can be pinned? + + -eg + + + _______________________________________________ + The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list + is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org + Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org + + Join the Association of Internet Researchers: + http://www.aoir.org/ + +_______________________________________________ +The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list +is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org +Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org + +Join the Association of Internet Researchers: +http://www.aoir.org/ + ========================================================================== Paul Jones "Work as if you live in the early days of a better nation." Alasdair Gray http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/blog/ pjones@ibiblio.org voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 ===========================================================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listserv "LISTSERV is the first electronic mailing list software application, originally developed in 1984 by Ira Fuchs, Daniel Oberst, and Ricky Hernandez, of EDUCAUSE, for the Bitnet computer network. It quickly became a key service on that network. An updated version, originally called Revised Listserv, was issued by Eric Thomas in 1986. Later it was ported to a variety of platforms and taken up by the Internet community. By the year 2000, LISTSERV was assisting more than 30 million users by transmitting more than 20 million messages per day." -- Terry Calhoun, MA, JD Director of Media Relations and Publications Society for College and University Planning (SCUP) terry.calhoun@scup.org | 734.998.7027 | www.scup.org | AIM = "splendid1" 339 E. Liberty Street, Suite 300, Ann Arbor, MI 48104 USA
I don't know the origin but I'll add my experience. At one time (perhaps still?) Listserv was a trademark. To avoid using a trademark that referred to a specific product, information professionals and librarians began using the term listserve with an e to generically refer to electronic discussion groups of the "mailing" list (Listserv actual product name) variety. Amelia, MarketingBase Amelia Kassel's Mentor Program for Independent Information Professionals Online Research Training Expert CI, Market, and Internet Research 707 829-9421;800 544-5924; Fax: 707 823-2713 http://www.marketingbase.com; mailto:amelia@marketingbase.com -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alex -Vipowernet Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:39 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org; ellis.godard@csun.edu Subject: Re: [Air-l] "listserve" In the DOS era - before Windows - all file names were 8 characters long, so listserve.exe would have been truncated to listserv.exe. Probably the reason it is 8 characters long. Who did it? Who wrote it? No idea... Alex Randall - survivor of DOS 1.0 in 1981... ----- Original Message ----- From: Ellis Godard To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:02 AM Subject: [Air-l] "listserve" I may have asked this before (I know I've at least raised the issue elsewhere, perhaps not here), but anyone how or when mailing lists became "listserves"? The etymological origin is probably ListServ (with MajorDomo, one of the leading mailing list software programs) and "list server", that beast which manages mailing lists. Was the adoption vague and gradual, or is there someone to whom blame (credit?) can be pinned? -eg _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
On 5/29/07, Amelia Kassel <amelia@marketingbase.com> wrote:
I don't know the origin but I'll add my experience. At one time (perhaps still?) Listserv was a trademark.
L-Soft still claims the trademark: http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/legal.asp Kevin
Thanks to Alex, Paul, Dominic, and Terry for the posts which were interesting, but seemed to miss the point: I'm aware of ListServ and its history, but am interested in when and how the brand name was appropriated as a common noun. (Think Levi's, Band-Aid, Kleenex, Kodak, Coke, and Tivo. There's a word for this I learned in 7th grade, but can't remember - and neither can my 7th grade teacher, whom I re-ask every few years just in case. Whatever it is, it's an important word. Maybe I should sniglet a new one.) Amelia's account is interesting - but I'm doubting that infolibs were the first to use "listserv" in the generic; I see "listservs" and "list serves" just as often as "listserves", so am not sure which appropriation came first; and I'm still interested in pinpointing blame on a more particular time and person. -eg
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l- bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Amelia Kassel Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:59 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] "listserve"
I don't know the origin but I'll add my experience. At one time (perhaps still?) Listserv was a trademark. To avoid using a trademark that referred to a specific product, information professionals and librarians began using the term listserve with an e to generically refer to electronic discussion groups of the "mailing" list (Listserv actual product name) variety.
Amelia, MarketingBase
Genericide or genericzied trademark http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark Also: List of generic and genericized trademarks Totally Explained http://tinyurl.com/2szth4 Amelia, MarketingBase Amelia Kassel's Mentor Program for Independent Information Professionals Online Research Training Expert CI, Market, and Internet Research 707 829-9421;800 544-5924; Fax: 707 823-2713 http://www.marketingbase.com; mailto:amelia@marketingbase.com -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Ellis Godard Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:29 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] "listserve" Thanks to Alex, Paul, Dominic, and Terry for the posts which were interesting, but seemed to miss the point: I'm aware of ListServ and its history, but am interested in when and how the brand name was appropriated as a common noun. (Think Levi's, Band-Aid, Kleenex, Kodak, Coke, and Tivo. There's a word for this I learned in 7th grade, but can't remember - and neither can my 7th grade teacher, whom I re-ask every few years just in case. Whatever it is, it's an important word. Maybe I should sniglet a new one.) Amelia's account is interesting - but I'm doubting that infolibs were the first to use "listserv" in the generic; I see "listservs" and "list serves" just as often as "listserves", so am not sure which appropriation came first; and I'm still interested in pinpointing blame on a more particular time and person. -eg
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l- bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Amelia Kassel Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:59 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] "listserve"
I don't know the origin but I'll add my experience. At one time (perhaps still?) Listserv was a trademark. To avoid using a trademark that referred to a specific product, information professionals and librarians began using the term listserve with an e to generically refer to electronic discussion groups of the "mailing" list (Listserv actual product name) variety.
Amelia, MarketingBase
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Barclays Bank in the UK appropriated a fairly common phrase for ATMs - hole in the wall - and this is now a registered trade name of their ATM network: Barclays Hole in the Wall™ This topic could run and run. - jeep was a generic said to derive from GP, I believe. Dominic Pinto http://www.ecademy.com/user/dominicpinto http://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicpinto Live or work in, or visit Covent Garden and Westminster? Check out http://www.westmin.co.uk/index.php e-m: dominic.pinto@ieee.org Skype: zorrodp M: +44 780 302-8268 Ph: +44 207 379-8341 In the U.S. M/Cell: +1 215 667-3001
--- Ellis Godard <egodard@csun.edu> wrote:
Thanks to Alex, Paul, Dominic, and Terry for the posts which were interesting, but seemed to miss the point: I'm aware of ListServ and its history, but am interested in when and how the brand name was appropriated as a common noun. (Think Levi's, Band-Aid, Kleenex, Kodak, Coke, and Tivo. There's a word for this I learned in 7th grade, but can't remember - and neither can my 7th grade teacher, whom I re-ask every few years just in case. Whatever it is, it's an important word. Maybe I should sniglet a new one.)
Perhaps it should have been clearer, but the history suggests that listserve seems to have been a _generic_ that was appropriated as a brand and registered name, rather than the reverse. Perhaps Volkswagen is an example of a generic being appropriated in a similar way - and maybe Smirnoff for vodka; Churchill for cigar (or tank). There must be others that assiduous googling would uncover. Oh, and wasn't aspirin originally a Bayer (fka I.G. Farben AG) brand name? And nylon (and others) a brand name of ICI (or Mond, its predecessor company)? Think then of others? See also some related references: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3006486.stm http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/04/AR2006080401... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_%28verb%29 http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/Humanist/v04/0419.html It's generally as you highlight the other way around - the brand name becoming synonymous with all similar products. In the UK to hoover was in such popular usage that it became the generic name for vacuum cleaning and cleaners; PA systems generally called Tannoy; colas of all sorts - coke (but assiduously policed and pursued by Coca Cola licensee representatives and legal hot shots). Other examples are fridge (Frigidaire); Google (as in web search); Scotch Tape or in the UK Sellotape; Elastoplast (in the U.S. BandAid); Post-Its; zippers, thermos, escalator, elevator, Some may be examples of rather blatant 'passing off', others a failure to protect/enforce intellectual property rights effectively lost any proprietary rights. An example of a generic term being (in)appropriated as a trade name/mark is Linux http://www.tuxdeluxe.org/node/107 And of course the humble apple was appropriated by 2 different corporations! All the best Dominic Dominic Pinto http://www.ecademy.com/user/dominicpinto http://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicpinto Live or work in, or visit Covent Garden and Westminster? Check out http://www.westmin.co.uk/index.php e-m: dominic.pinto@ieee.org Skype: zorrodp M: +44 780 302-8268 Ph: +44 207 379-8341 In the U.S. M/Cell: +1 215 667-3001
The name for it that Wikipedia uses is "genericide." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark There's also a list there of such trademarked names: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_generic_and_genericized_trademarks :-D. Deanya Ellis Godard wrote:
Thanks to Alex, Paul, Dominic, and Terry for the posts which were interesting, but seemed to miss the point: I'm aware of ListServ and its history, but am interested in when and how the brand name was appropriated as a common noun. (Think Levi's, Band-Aid, Kleenex, Kodak, Coke, and Tivo. There's a word for this I learned in 7th grade, but can't remember - and neither can my 7th grade teacher, whom I re-ask every few years just in case. Whatever it is, it's an important word. Maybe I should sniglet a new one.)
Amelia's account is interesting - but I'm doubting that infolibs were the first to use "listserv" in the generic; I see "listservs" and "list serves" just as often as "listserves", so am not sure which appropriation came first; and I'm still interested in pinpointing blame on a more particular time and person.
-eg
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l- bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Amelia Kassel Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:59 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] "listserve"
I don't know the origin but I'll add my experience. At one time (perhaps still?) Listserv was a trademark. To avoid using a trademark that referred to a specific product, information professionals and librarians began using the term listserve with an e to generically refer to electronic discussion groups of the "mailing" list (Listserv actual product name) variety.
Amelia, MarketingBase
_______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Going back in time a bit. There was a kind of a stink over who owned listserv the program and listserv the name as BITNET and Educom (later EduCAUSE) became involved in a dispute with Eric Thomas over the service if not the name and code, hence Eric and L-Soft's lengthy history and detailed claims. One could, if she wanted to challenge Eric, point out that the BITNIC folks had named their code LISTSERV long before him and that his "revised LISTSERV" is it were all new code impinges on the BITNIC naming thus placing his trademark claim at risk. This is especially true once you realize that the term LISTSERV was in use in 1985 and that L-Soft's registration was not filed until 1996! The LISTSERV term then could be said to have been common if not in public domain before registration for a decade. And that Eric, pre-L-Soft, captured the term from BITNIC for his entirely different (and I will admit much improved) product. Then the term eventually registered by L-Soft. Now with genericide and despite L-Soft's warnings to us all http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/trademark.asp the term returns to common use. It would be instructive, for those of us interested in IP law, to see a challenge to L-Soft's ownership of the term. But don't expect to see that coming from me ;-> ========================================================================== Paul Jones "Work as if you live in the early days of a better nation." Alasdair Gray http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/blog/ pjones@ibiblio.org voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 ===========================================================================
This has been amusing as I've had a sense of deja vu as I was writing my notes. Yes yes, I have been here before. In 1997 on the CYBERIA-L mailing list where we discussed exactly this same topic http://legalminds.lp.findlaw.com/list/cyberia-l/frm13569.html where we find a post from Chris Morris begining a thread with a post that includes "I think L-soft is waging the battle against genericide too late." And the late Peter Junger begins another thread with many of the same assertions that we've made here http://legalminds.lp.findlaw.com/list/cyberia-l/frm13537.html But I believe that Carol Shepherd had what I recall was the best explaination: http://legalminds.lp.findlaw.com/list/cyberia-l/frm13609.html Now if anyone can find out if L-Soft has ever been challenged... ========================================================================== Paul Jones "Work as if you live in the early days of a better nation." Alasdair Gray http://www.ibiblio.org/pjones/blog/ pjones@ibiblio.org voice: (919) 962-7600 fax: (919) 962-8071 ===========================================================================
Apologies for any cross-posting. Cheers, Denise POSTDOCTORAL RESEARCH POSITION
University of California, San Diego (UCSD)
We are currently recruiting for a Postdoctoral Researcher to join a new Software Studies initiative at UCSD. The researcher will work with Dr. Lev Manovich (Professor, Visual Arts) and Dr. Noah Wardrip- Fruin (Assistant Professor, Communication), playing a key role in all projects and field-building activities.
The goals of Software Studies initiative <http://softwaretheory.net/> > at UCSD are:
* to foster research and develop models and tools for the study of software from the perspectives of cultural criticism, the humanities, and the social sciences; * to help establish a new field of "software studies" that will complement existing research in cyberculture and new media; * to develop projects that will demonstrate how next generation cyberinfrastructure can be used by humanists, social scientists, and cultural practitioners.
For an introduction to "software studies," see: Software Studies Workshop, Piet Zwart Institute, Rotterdam, February 2006 (http:// pzwart.wdka.hro.nl/mdr/Seminars2/softstudworkshop).
POSITION DETAILS
The position is full time (40 hrs/week). The initial appointment is for 1 year, with the possibility for renewal. The position comes with full benefits covered by UCSD (http://research.ucsd.edu/ postdoc/benefits.aspx). The starting salary range is USD 38,000 - 42,000. The selected candidate can start immediately.
Required qualifications:
* a PhD in the humanities, social sciences, information science, or related interdisciplinary area that has been completed and defended before starting the position at UCSD; * broad understanding of contemporary global culture and familiarity with current debates in one or more cultural fields; * familiarity with current IT developments; understanding of Web 2.0 concepts and social media optimization; * the ability to write engaging and jargon-free texts that are accessible to diverse global audiences.
Desired qualifications:
* experience installing and using research-oriented software tools (e.g., data mining tools, GIS packages, visualization technologies, databases, and/or other software used in digital humanities); * understanding of programming language and system integration concepts; practical experience with computer programming or scripting; * previous experience working with computer scientists on joint projects; * previous research projects and/or publications which address software from the perspectives of the humanities, social sciences, or cultural criticism (for example: the history of software; studies of software use in the sciences, cultural industries, and other fields; the analysis of software structures and code).
This position is supported by the UCSD Division of the California> Institute for Telecommunications and Information Technology (Calit2) and the Center for Research in Computing and the Arts (CRCA). Housing over 900 faculty, graduate students, and staff researchers, Calit2 is developing next-generation cyberinfrastructure tools with a particular focus on multidisciplinary collaboration.
Calit2 is located on the UCSD campus, which is internationally renowned as a place for study and research in digital art, computer music, and digital theory. Between the departments of Visual Arts, Music, and Communication, there are close to 30 full-time faculty working in these areas.
The technical facilities and staff support for research in digital media on the UCSD campus are among the best in the world. They include a number of state-of-the-art research labs and performance spaces which provide both current and next-generation tools for immersive visualization, multi-channel audio spatialization, digital cinema, motion capture, interactive performance, 3-D fabrication, and computer gaming research. The UCSD campus also houses the San Diego Supercomputing Center which provides facilities for petascale computing, data storage, and visualization.
The position is open until filled, but application review will begin after June 10th, 2007. For priority consideration, candidates are encouraged to apply before this date. Applicants should send a current CV with cover letter to Helena Bristow (bristow@ucsd.edu) with subject line "Application for Software Studies Postdoc Position."
Manovich and Wardrip-Fruin will be available for preliminary interviews at the 2007 Digital Humanities conference during the first week of June, 2007 (http://www.digitalhumanities.org/ dh2007/). Please indicate whether you will be attending DH '07 in your application.
For further information, please contact:
Helena Bristow Administrative Director Center for Research in Computing and the Arts bristow@ucsd.edu
Denise N. Rall, PhD Southern Cross University, Lismore NSW 2480 AUSTRALIA Tues: Room T2.17, +61 (0)2 6620 3577 Mobile 0438 233 344 http://www.scu.edu.au/schools/rsm/staff/pages/drall/ Virtual member, Cybermetrics Group, University of Wolverhampton, UK http://cybermetrics.wlv.ac.uk/index.html ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/
Dear All, Is anyone here has ever done a research on how to manage Information Centre in order to be effective and efficient and what is the concern(s). If yes, I would like to discuss it with you. Thanks, Goutama Bachtiar Academic Department Multimatics Group Indonesia - Pusat Sertifikasi Profesi Jakarta, Indonesia
How does this account for how "listserves" became appropriated as a generic from the brand ListServ? -eg From: Alex -Vipowernet [mailto:alex@islands.vi] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:39 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org; ellis.godard@csun.edu Subject: Re: [Air-l] "listserve" In the DOS era - before Windows - all file names were 8 characters long, so listserve.exe would have been truncated to listserv.exe. Probably the reason it is 8 characters long. Who did it? Who wrote it? No idea... Alex Randall - survivor of DOS 1.0 in 1981... ----- Original Message ----- From: Ellis Godard <mailto:egodard@csun.edu> To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 12:02 AM Subject: [Air-l] "listserve" I may have asked this before (I know I've at least raised the issue elsewhere, perhaps not here), but anyone how or when mailing lists became "listserves"? The etymological origin is probably ListServ (with MajorDomo, one of the leading mailing list software programs) and "list server", that beast which manages mailing lists. Was the adoption vague and gradual, or is there someone to whom blame (credit?) can be pinned? -eg _______________________________________________ The air-l@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
--- Ellis Godard <egodard@csun.edu> wrote:
I may have asked this before (I know I've at least raised the issue elsewhere, perhaps not here), but anyone how or when mailing lists became "listserves"? The etymological origin is probably ListServ (with MajorDomo, one of the leading mailing list software programs) and "list server", that beast which manages mailing lists. Was the adoption vague and gradual, or is there someone to whom blame (credit?) can be pinned?
see: http://www.lsoft.com/corporate/ericthomas.asp http://www.lsoft.com/products/listserv-history.asp http://www.livinginternet.com/l/lli.htm http://www.ibiblio.org/usenet-i/groups-html/bit.listserv.history.html One Eric Thomas of CERN is said to have devised the real Listserv in 1986, originally called Revised Listserv. Dominic Pinto http://www.ecademy.com/user/dominicpinto http://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicpinto Live or work in, or visit Covent Garden and Westminster? Check out http://www.westmin.co.uk/index.php e-m: dominic.pinto@ieee.org Skype: zorrodp M: +44 780 302-8268 Ph: +44 207 379-8341 In the U.S. M/Cell: +1 215 667-3001
participants (10)
-
Alex -Vipowernet -
Amelia Kassel -
Denise N. Rall -
Dominic Pinto -
Ellis Godard -
Goutama Bachtiar -
Kevin Guidry -
M. Deanya Lattimore -
Paul Jones -
Terry Calhoun