Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario. Kind regards Philippa Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse & Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM >>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking) André On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock <andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!). I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome. André On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith <philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse & Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM >>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock <andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed. - Brian -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages? Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!). I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome. André On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith <philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse & Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM >>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock <andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Two quick comments here, both AGAINST the notion that André necessarily has to ask for permission to use the images in question. First, "fair use" arguably disappears -- in specific cases, if not as a whole -- the moment you ask for permission. At the very least, asking for permission potentially prevents you from asserting "fair use" later (which you might still want to do if, for example, your request isn't answered in a timely fashion), since it demonstrates that you don't believe your quotation of the material qualifies as "fair use." Second, "fair use" isn't simply some technical quirk in US copyright law that allows scholars to get away with what is otherwise morally questionable activity. It is arguably one of the basic rights that enables us -- along with journalists, reviewers, critics, and a vast range of other cultural commentators -- to do our jobs. I'm willing to bet that the publisher André is dealing with is NOT making him secure permission every time he quotes printed texts. He undoubtedly needs to attribute such quotes properly, and there are likely to be restrictions on how much of a source he can quote ... but "fair use" is what allows scholars to quote words written by other people (and reviewers to quote bits of books, songs, plays, movies, etc.) in the ordinary practices of research, criticism, and commentary without having to formally granted permission to do so. Put a different way, "fair use" is one of the major things that keeps copyright holders from using charges of "infringement" as a backhanded means of controlling public commentary about the works in question. cheers gil On 09/01/2010 05:16 PM, Brian Holland wrote:
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed.
- Brian
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!).
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome.
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith<philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse& Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM>>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
I'm not familiar with the notion that asking for permission might eliminate/jeopardize a future fair use claim. Is there legal precedent establishing this? -mz -- Michael Zimmer, PhD Assistant Professor, School of Information Studies Director, BS in Information Science & Technology Program Associate, Center for Information Policy Research University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee e: zimmerm@uwm.edu w: www.michaelzimmer.org On Sep 1, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Gilbert B. Rodman wrote:
Two quick comments here, both AGAINST the notion that André necessarily has to ask for permission to use the images in question.
First, "fair use" arguably disappears -- in specific cases, if not as a whole -- the moment you ask for permission. At the very least, asking for permission potentially prevents you from asserting "fair use" later (which you might still want to do if, for example, your request isn't answered in a timely fashion), since it demonstrates that you don't believe your quotation of the material qualifies as "fair use."
Second, "fair use" isn't simply some technical quirk in US copyright law that allows scholars to get away with what is otherwise morally questionable activity. It is arguably one of the basic rights that enables us -- along with journalists, reviewers, critics, and a vast range of other cultural commentators -- to do our jobs. I'm willing to bet that the publisher André is dealing with is NOT making him secure permission every time he quotes printed texts. He undoubtedly needs to attribute such quotes properly, and there are likely to be restrictions on how much of a source he can quote ... but "fair use" is what allows scholars to quote words written by other people (and reviewers to quote bits of books, songs, plays, movies, etc.) in the ordinary practices of research, criticism, and commentary without having to formally granted permission to do so. Put a different way, "fair use" is one of the major things that keeps copyright holders from using charges of "infringement" as a backhanded means of controlling public commentary about the works in question.
cheers gil
On 09/01/2010 05:16 PM, Brian Holland wrote:
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed.
- Brian
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!).
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome.
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith<philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse& Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM>>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
A couple of quick comments: I agree with Gil's sentiment that we should resist the narrowing of fair use. I don't think that Andre "should" have to ask permission, but he may decide that, all things considered, that is the best course of action to reach his publication goal. My original comments were simply intended to highlight the difficulty of the fair use question, the chilling effect that follows uncertainty as to what is fair use and what is not, and the perspective of a publisher facing the potential of significant damages if they make the wrong calculation. As to whether asking permission effects the fair use claim, as a strict matter I think the answer is generally no. However, some copyright holders have argued that moving forward with publication after being denied permission demonstrates bad faith -- a factor in the fair use analysis. But that argument has had mixed results. The contrary argument may, in fact, carry equal weight; i.e., that the failure to ask permission where one knows that such permission is potentially available suggests bad faith. This is, in my opinion, one of the more unfortunate aspects of US copyright law as it now stands, but it is nevertheless something with which we must contend. Finally, I agree that a publisher cannot generally impose greater restrictions on content than those provided under copyright law. But they still try; e.g., broadcasters have been trying this for years with their "no unauthorized use" claims at the beginning and end of (American) football games. That said, content providers have been somewhat successful in imposing more severe restrictions via contract -- of course you have to agree to the terms and that isn't usually possible, but digital distribution is making it increasingly common. I hope this is helpful and not too deeply law-geek. Brian H. Brian Holland Associate Professor of Law Texas Wesleyan School of Law (sent from my iPad) On Sep 1, 2010, at 8:52 PM, "Michael Zimmer" <zimmerm@uwm.edu> wrote:
I'm not familiar with the notion that asking for permission might eliminate/jeopardize a future fair use claim. Is there legal precedent establishing this?
-mz
-- Michael Zimmer, PhD Assistant Professor, School of Information Studies Director, BS in Information Science & Technology Program Associate, Center for Information Policy Research University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee e: zimmerm@uwm.edu w: www.michaelzimmer.org
On Sep 1, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Gilbert B. Rodman wrote:
Two quick comments here, both AGAINST the notion that André necessarily has to ask for permission to use the images in question.
First, "fair use" arguably disappears -- in specific cases, if not as a whole -- the moment you ask for permission. At the very least, asking for permission potentially prevents you from asserting "fair use" later (which you might still want to do if, for example, your request isn't answered in a timely fashion), since it demonstrates that you don't believe your quotation of the material qualifies as "fair use."
Second, "fair use" isn't simply some technical quirk in US copyright law that allows scholars to get away with what is otherwise morally questionable activity. It is arguably one of the basic rights that enables us -- along with journalists, reviewers, critics, and a vast range of other cultural commentators -- to do our jobs. I'm willing to bet that the publisher André is dealing with is NOT making him secure permission every time he quotes printed texts. He undoubtedly needs to attribute such quotes properly, and there are likely to be restrictions on how much of a source he can quote ... but "fair use" is what allows scholars to quote words written by other people (and reviewers to quote bits of books, songs, plays, movies, etc.) in the ordinary practices of research, criticism, and commentary without having to formally granted permission to do so. Put a different way, "fair use" is one of the major things that keeps copyright holders from using charges of "infringement" as a backhanded means of controlling public commentary about the works in question.
cheers gil
On 09/01/2010 05:16 PM, Brian Holland wrote:
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed.
- Brian
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!).
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome.
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith<philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse& Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
> André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM>>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Just thought I'd note that most of the discussion so far is valid primarily for the US. If the journal in question is published in Europe, the law is quite different - in some countries (such as mine) there are specific clauses for academic research publishing. However, the publisher may not know about it. I had a similar problem with a German publisher two years ago, but I just told them I believed academic research was excempted from the law, and they accepted it. Anders S. Løvlie Univ. of Oslo On 02-09-10 04:31, Brian Holland wrote:
A couple of quick comments:
I agree with Gil's sentiment that we should resist the narrowing of fair use. I don't think that Andre "should" have to ask permission, but he may decide that, all things considered, that is the best course of action to reach his publication goal.
My original comments were simply intended to highlight the difficulty of the fair use question, the chilling effect that follows uncertainty as to what is fair use and what is not, and the perspective of a publisher facing the potential of significant damages if they make the wrong calculation.
As to whether asking permission effects the fair use claim, as a strict matter I think the answer is generally no. However, some copyright holders have argued that moving forward with publication after being denied permission demonstrates bad faith -- a factor in the fair use analysis. But that argument has had mixed results. The contrary argument may, in fact, carry equal weight; i.e., that the failure to ask permission where one knows that such permission is potentially available suggests bad faith. This is, in my opinion, one of the more unfortunate aspects of US copyright law as it now stands, but it is nevertheless something with which we must contend.
Finally, I agree that a publisher cannot generally impose greater restrictions on content than those provided under copyright law. But they still try; e.g., broadcasters have been trying this for years with their "no unauthorized use" claims at the beginning and end of (American) football games. That said, content providers have been somewhat successful in imposing more severe restrictions via contract -- of course you have to agree to the terms and that isn't usually possible, but digital distribution is making it increasingly common.
I hope this is helpful and not too deeply law-geek.
Brian
H. Brian Holland Associate Professor of Law Texas Wesleyan School of Law (sent from my iPad)
On Sep 1, 2010, at 8:52 PM, "Michael Zimmer" <zimmerm@uwm.edu> wrote:
I'm not familiar with the notion that asking for permission might eliminate/jeopardize a future fair use claim. Is there legal precedent establishing this?
-mz
-- Michael Zimmer, PhD Assistant Professor, School of Information Studies Director, BS in Information Science & Technology Program Associate, Center for Information Policy Research University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee e: zimmerm@uwm.edu w: www.michaelzimmer.org
On Sep 1, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Gilbert B. Rodman wrote:
Two quick comments here, both AGAINST the notion that André necessarily has to ask for permission to use the images in question.
First, "fair use" arguably disappears -- in specific cases, if not as a whole -- the moment you ask for permission. At the very least, asking for permission potentially prevents you from asserting "fair use" later (which you might still want to do if, for example, your request isn't answered in a timely fashion), since it demonstrates that you don't believe your quotation of the material qualifies as "fair use."
Second, "fair use" isn't simply some technical quirk in US copyright law that allows scholars to get away with what is otherwise morally questionable activity. It is arguably one of the basic rights that enables us -- along with journalists, reviewers, critics, and a vast range of other cultural commentators -- to do our jobs. I'm willing to bet that the publisher André is dealing with is NOT making him secure permission every time he quotes printed texts. He undoubtedly needs to attribute such quotes properly, and there are likely to be restrictions on how much of a source he can quote ... but "fair use" is what allows scholars to quote words written by other people (and reviewers to quote bits of books, songs, plays, movies, etc.) in the ordinary practices of research, criticism, and commentary without having to formally granted permission to do so. Put a different way, "fair use" is one of the major things that keeps copyright holders from using charges of "infrin gement" as a backhanded means of controlling public commentary about the works in question.
cheers gil
On 09/01/2010 05:16 PM, Brian Holland wrote:
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed.
- Brian
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!).
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome.
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith<philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse& Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
>> André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM>>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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The attached may be of interest (especially since it is free!) DLB -- Dan L. Burk Chancellor's Professor of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ On September 20, the University of Richmond is hosting a symposium, Evolving Perspectives on Ethics. I bring it to your attention because one of the sessions, New Media, New Ethics, New Selves, will feature a talk by Charles Ess, whose work many of you know. More info at http://jepson.richmond.edu/conferences/ethicsindex.html. If you would like to come, please register at http://jepson.richmond.edu/conferences/registration.html. Its free. Best, Jim Jim Gibson Faculty Director, Intellectual Property Institute Professor of Law, University of Richmond jgibson@richmond.edu (804) 287-6398 [View my research at http://ssrn.com/author=354288.]
No. In fact, the leading USSC case on fair use, Campbell v. Acuff-Rose, involved a successful assertion of fair use after a request for permission to use the copyrighted work (Roy Orbison's song "Oh Pretty Woman") was denied. Asking is polite. Asking is less complicated. Asking is (usually) less expensive. And if you don't get permission, you can claim your statutory exemption later. The rest of Gil's comment is spot on, however. DLB
I'm not familiar with the notion that asking for permission might eliminate/jeopardize a future fair use claim. Is there legal precedent establishing this?
-mz
-- Michael Zimmer, PhD Assistant Professor, School of Information Studies Director, BS in Information Science & Technology Program Associate, Center for Information Policy Research University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee e: zimmerm@uwm.edu w: www.michaelzimmer.org
Dan L. Burk Chancellor's Professor of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336 bits: dburk@uci.edu
I'm happy to be corrected on the legal nuances of asking first. Doubly so, since I already knew the rough details of the case Dan mentioned, but had never thought of it in terms of the "asking first" aspect of things. So thanks to Dan for that. :) That said, I'm going to quibble a bit -- in a friendly fashion, I hope -- with the notion that asking is "polite" and "less complicated." To be sure, asking may be polite ... but it's not clear to me that not asking is necessarily impolite. Especially if one is asking a corporation, rather than an individual. I can certainly imagine it being polite to ask someone if I could use, say, a family photo of theirs that they'd posted to Flickr or Facebook. Not so much if I'm asking CNN for permission to republish a screengrab of the front page of their website. I’m not sure it’s even possible to be impolite to a corporation ... but that’s a philosophical question for another moment. More to the point, the norm (scholarly and otherwise) when it comes to using other people's printed words is NOT to ask except in cases where the quote in question is exceptionally long. And we generally don't claim that it's impolite to quote other people's words without permission (or that etiquette demands we ask permission anyway). Quite the opposite, actually. We assume that as long as we follow scholarly norms of attribution and citation, that we can -- and must be allowed to -- quote other people’s words freely, and that they do NOT have the right to grant or withhold permission when we do so. Mind you, I'm happy to accept that there are real differences between words (on the one hand) and images, songs, websites, etc (on the other) that matter with respect to both copyright and fair use. But I'm not sure those differences typically register at the level of social courtesy. And asking can actually be *very* complicated -- if only because the questions of *who* actually needs to be asked and *where* they can be reached is not always simple. I'll give one personal example to illustrate this, but I'm sure it's not unique. A few years ago, I wrote an essay on Eminem that was accepted for publication by the journal Popular Communication. I'd completed the revisions the editors had asked for, and everything was set ... until the legal team at Lawrence Erlbaum (who publish the journal) said I needed to secure permission for any lyrics I quoted that were longer than a sentence fragment. I had to write the letters, pay the fees (if any), and produce documentation of all of this ... or drop all un-cleared lyric quotes from the essay. I pushed back -- arguing the quotes were all textbook examples of "fair use" (e.g., brief quotations for the purposes of scholarship and cultural criticism) -- but they didn't budge. (Not right away, anyway. Eventually, they relented. But I'm trying to keep this brief.) So I tried to contact "Eight Mile Publishing" (Eminem's music publishing company) to request the permission LEA insisted that I had to have. But, of course, like most music publishing companies, Eight Mile is a paper corporation. It has no staff. It has no offices. It has no street address. It doesn't even have a post office box. Or, more crucially, if it has any of those things, that information isn't publicly accessible in any easy-to-find fashion. I went through every sideways and back channel I could imagine simply to figure out where to send a letter to someone who *might* be in a position to make sure that my query landed in the hands of the right people. None of the letters I eventually sent off ever resulted in so much as an acknowledgment, much less an actual response to my request for permission. This whole process took several months. And it was far more complicated than it would have been simply to treat the quotations in question as “fair use” from the start. To be sure -- and this may be what Dan is getting at -- those several months of frustration were undoubtedly easier than being in the receiving end of a copyright infringement lawsuit. Even if “fair use” would have won out in such a case. I get that. But let’s also not pretend that "asking first” is necessarily an easy thing to do. cheers gil On 09/03/2010 12:23 PM, Dan L. Burk wrote:
No. In fact, the leading USSC case on fair use, Campbell v. Acuff-Rose, involved a successful assertion of fair use after a request for permission to use the copyrighted work (Roy Orbison's song "Oh Pretty Woman") was denied.
Asking is polite. Asking is less complicated. Asking is (usually) less expensive. And if you don't get permission, you can claim your statutory exemption later.
The rest of Gil's comment is spot on, however.
DLB
I'm not familiar with the notion that asking for permission might eliminate/jeopardize a future fair use claim. Is there legal precedent establishing this?
-mz
-- Michael Zimmer, PhD Assistant Professor, School of Information Studies Director, BS in Information Science& Technology Program Associate, Center for Information Policy Research University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee e:zimmerm@uwm.edu w:www.michaelzimmer.org Dan L. Burk Chancellor's Professor of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336 bits:dburk@uci.edu
_______________________________________________ TheAir-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchershttp://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at:http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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To be sure -- and this may be what Dan is getting at -- those several months of frustration were undoubtedly easier than being in the receiving end of a copyright infringement lawsuit. Even if fair use would have won out in such a case. I get that.
Exactly. And, sometimes you are surprised. I got a polite note from an anthology editor a couple of years back, letting me know that he was including one of my articles in a collection on digital ethics that he was preparing. I wrote back and told him that I was happy to give permission for him to reprint the article in the collection. He replied that he had already gotten permission from the publisher of the journal where the article had first appeared, and had paid $500 for it. He was just dropping me a courtesy note to let me know about it. I wrote back again and let him know that, since I do NOT assign my copyright to journals, I was the copyright holder, not the journal, and I was happy to give him permission for free. Also, that he should ask for his $500 back, since the journal publisher had no right to it. He got his permission, my work became a bit more widely circulated, and he saved $500. DLB -- School of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336 bits: dburk@uci.edu
A cool story. Thanks for sharing. It also speaks to something I cut out of my (fruitless) search for the proper contact for Eminem's music publishing. Which is that the "easy" route would have been to write directly to Eminem's record label -- which has a published address, but which may not actually control his publishing rights ... but who may still have been happy to have me write them a fat check for permissions that they didn't have the legal right to give me anyway. cheers gil On 09/03/2010 10:50 PM, Dan L. Burk wrote:
To be sure -- and this may be what Dan is getting at -- those several months of frustration were undoubtedly easier than being in the receiving end of a copyright infringement lawsuit. Even if “fair use” would have won out in such a case. I get that. Exactly.
And, sometimes you are surprised.
I got a polite note from an anthology editor a couple of years back, letting me know that he was including one of my articles in a collection on digital ethics that he was preparing.
I wrote back and told him that I was happy to give permission for him to reprint the article in the collection.
He replied that he had already gotten permission from the publisher of the journal where the article had first appeared, and had paid $500 for it. He was just dropping me a courtesy note to let me know about it.
I wrote back again and let him know that, since I do NOT assign my copyright to journals, I was the copyright holder, not the journal, and I was happy to give him permission for free. Also, that he should ask for his $500 back, since the journal publisher had no right to it.
He got his permission, my work became a bit more widely circulated, and he saved $500. DLB
I'm with Gil and I think he's spot on in emphasizing the importance of understanding 'fair use' as an essential need and right. I would add that as a research community we need to not only defend but promote 'fair use' whenever possible. The law (U.S.) is deliberately vague in this area because 'fair use' was always intended to be an ethical assessment/judgment made by the copyright user rather than a narrowly defined set of rules/regulations dictated from the top down. Obviously, the courts will decide the outcome if the copyright holder brings a claim of infringement, but fear or uncertainty should not deter us from using materials necessary for critical analysis (among other things). It does mean we need to make a solid argument as to how the use of materials falls within the doctrine of fair use. Mark mentioned the ICA's recent release of a "best practices" document. I'll just mention that it's the latest of several that have been developed by communities of researchers/practitioners/educators to help their members understand what 'fair use' might mean and to help make good decisions in context. Incidentally, documentary filmmakers experienced a lot of positive outcomes from developing such a document (see American University's Center for Social Media site: http://www.centerforsocialmedia.org/fair-use). AOIR doesn't have anything like this, so I agree it's worth talking about in Gothenburg. Andre, I'd be happy to meet about this with a group of colleagues. Maybe we could all watch Lawrence Lessig's presentation (Nov 2009 for Educause) to get geared up for it: "It's about time: Getting our values about copyright" http://blip.tv/file/2827842 annette On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Gilbert B. Rodman <gbrodman@mindspring.com>wrote:
Two quick comments here, both AGAINST the notion that André necessarily has to ask for permission to use the images in question.
First, "fair use" arguably disappears -- in specific cases, if not as a whole -- the moment you ask for permission. At the very least, asking for permission potentially prevents you from asserting "fair use" later (which you might still want to do if, for example, your request isn't answered in a timely fashion), since it demonstrates that you don't believe your quotation of the material qualifies as "fair use."
Second, "fair use" isn't simply some technical quirk in US copyright law that allows scholars to get away with what is otherwise morally questionable activity. It is arguably one of the basic rights that enables us -- along with journalists, reviewers, critics, and a vast range of other cultural commentators -- to do our jobs. I'm willing to bet that the publisher André is dealing with is NOT making him secure permission every time he quotes printed texts. He undoubtedly needs to attribute such quotes properly, and there are likely to be restrictions on how much of a source he can quote ... but "fair use" is what allows scholars to quote words written by other people (and reviewers to quote bits of books, songs, plays, movies, etc.) in the ordinary practices of research, criticism, and commentary without having to formally granted permission to do so. Put a different way, "fair use" is one of the major things that keeps copyright holders from using charges of "infringement" as a backhanded means of controlling public commentary about the works in question.
cheers gil
On 09/01/2010 05:16 PM, Brian Holland wrote:
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed.
- Brian
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!).
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome.
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith<philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz
wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a
situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse& Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM>>>
Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to
obtain
permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage.
Not, to
be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've
been
offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL,
but
from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes
change
formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included
in the
original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know:
"where
dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get
bent
so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Andre: Those publications will probably welcome what you are trying to do because it will it is aiding in the serious academic persona that all publications like to have. I have already told Brian that I think academia needs to literally tactically sue publishers like the AP and force the AP and organizations like AP to sign agreements when needing academic IP, interviews and more. Academia needs its own pit-bull group to go after these ravenous publishers. Is it any wonder that print is mortally wounded in too many places? Good luck! -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Brian Holland Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:16 PM To: andre.brock@gmail.com Cc: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages? The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed. - Brian -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages? Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!). I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome. André On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith <philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz>wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse & Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM >>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock <andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
I used images from webpages (about 10, or so) in my book Cyber Racism (thanks to Nick for previous shout out about it being useful). I really had to fight with the publisher to get the webpage/images included - both around copyright issues and just in terms of what it would take for them to reproduce the images for the book. In terms of copyright / permission, they required that I send Registered/Certified snail mail to all the people (white supremacists) who had published the pages. Most didn't reply, and one asked for money (uhm, no). The other objection from the publisher was about the poor image quality of moving stuff from the web to the page. I ended up hiring a freelancer to help with enhancing them for print publication. And, here I just have to echo Chris' lament about the state of publishing. I really look forward to the day when I'm working to the era of e-books with multi-media elements integrated in and seen as an asset rather than a stumbling block. Best, ~ Jessie Jessie Daniels, PhD Associate Professor Hunter College New York, NY * * * My latest book: Cyber Racism http://www.cyberracism.com/mediakit.html * * * Twitter: @JessieNYC On Thu, Sep 2, 2010 at 7:35 AM, Heidelberg, Chris <Chris.Heidelberg@ssa.gov>wrote:
Andre:
Those publications will probably welcome what you are trying to do because it will it is aiding in the serious academic persona that all publications like to have. I have already told Brian that I think academia needs to literally tactically sue publishers like the AP and force the AP and organizations like AP to sign agreements when needing academic IP, interviews and more. Academia needs its own pit-bull group to go after these ravenous publishers. Is it any wonder that print is mortally wounded in too many places?
Good luck!
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Brian Holland Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:16 PM To: andre.brock@gmail.com Cc: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
The AP is particularly litigious in this regard. They have an extensive licensing program and they expect folks to use it. In fact, the existence of such a program is a major factor against fair use -- i.e., it makes your claim of fair use less likely to succeed.
- Brian
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of André Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 5:08 PM To: Philippa Smith; air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Permission to reproduce webpages?
Thanks, Philippa! I appreciate the heads up. Fortunately, the sites we examined (Racialicious, Jezebel, and Essence.com for those keeping score at home) aren't pulling from AP (thank god!).
I'll keep y'all posted on my progress and outcome.
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Philippa Smith <philippa.smith@aut.ac.nz
wrote:
Just as an aside and to throw a spanner in the works - I've had a situation where we wanted to use a screenshot from an online newspaper but because the source of the article was Associated Press we had to get their permission as well to reproduce the text. This came at a financial cost. It's worth noting whether websites contain material from other sources that might also need permission. Unfortunately this is a can of worms scenario.
Kind regards
Philippa
Philippa Smith PhD Candidate Institute of Culture, Discourse & Communication AUT University Auckland NEW ZEALAND
André Brock<andre.brock@gmail.com> 09/02/10 9:41 AM >>> Thanks to everyone who's answered me so far (Hi, Annette!). The legal advice was particularly helpful, and i'm going to follow Ulf-Dietrich's advice and contact the websites - i have contacts at a couple of them.
Does AoIR have a specific statement on fair use of Internet/ICT materials for research in the field? I know we have an extensive set of materials on Ethics... (and no, i'm not volunteering to write it. i'm just asking)
André
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Andre Brock <andre.brock@gmail.com> wrote:
For the first time in, well, ever I've been asked by a journal to obtain permission from a website to reproduce a screenshot of a webpage. Not, to be clear, of an image on the page - but of the page itself. I've been offered the option of removing the image and replacing it with a URL, but from an archival standpoint that's problematic. Webpages with dynamic content change all the time, not to mention that authors sometimes change formats/platforms, modify pages, or remove content that was included in the original analysis.
I don't want to miss the publishing deadline, but I need to know: "where dey do dat at?!?" (translation: since when did fair use guidelines get bent so badly in academic publishing?)
André Brock Assistant Professor, SLIS/POROI University of Iowa
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Andre Brock Assistant Professor - Library and Information Science/POROI University of Iowa Iowa City, IA 52242 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Paul Heald -- one of the best minds working in the copyright field today -- long ago mapped out a series of claims (or counter-claims) that could be brought against spurious assertions of copyright: Paul Heald, Payment Demands for Spurious Copyrights: Four Causes of Action, 1 J. Intell. Prop. L. 259 (1994). http://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1341&context=f... Unfortunately, asserting such claims is expensive and unpleasant, but the law is there for anyone with the intestinal fortitude to use it. DLB
I have already told Brian that I think academia needs to literally tactically sue publishers like the AP and force the AP and organizations like AP to sign agreements when needing academic IP, interviews and more. Academia needs its own pit-bull group to go after these ravenous publishers. Is it any wonder that print is mortally wounded in too many places?
Good luck!
-- Dan L. Burk Chancellor's Professor of Law University of California, Irvine 4500 Berkeley Place Irvine, CA 92697-8000 Voice: (949) 824-9325 Fax: (949)824-7336
participants (10)
-
Anders Sundnes Løvlie -
André Brock -
Annette Markham -
Brian Holland -
Dan L. Burk -
Gilbert B. Rodman -
Heidelberg, Chris -
Jessie Daniels -
Michael Zimmer -
Philippa Smith