1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all. 2. Christophe, I don't understand why you have included my name. I don't think we ever met, and you certainly don't know me. I had nothing to do with the CNN story. Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________ S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter. Nancy On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all.
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-) how do you feel about Oscar Wilde. Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________ S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________ On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter.
Nancy
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all.
Life isn't so neatly compartmentalized. Remove the internet for a moment. My guess is that you have dear friends who are sometimes brilliant to speak with and sometimes, not so much. You don't reject them as friends just because not all of the conversations are brilliant. Likewise, you have colleagues who you have intensely philosophical debates with but, when standing in line for lunch, the conversation centers around something else. We can value people for just one facet of their lives but our friends and other intimates are more than that. Of course, perhaps you have friends who could never stop talking about their kids so you stopped inviting them to dinner parties. This happens too. But none of our strong connections with people are truly always on topic. We just easily forget the chitter chatter and remember the deeply meaningful. Perhaps we should be asking ourselves: Why is it that, when we go online, we want to optimize for the brilliant conversations only? Why do we want to reduce our connections down to only one facet? Is this because of the asynchronicity? Is it because of our self- involvement? Or something else? Personally, I like the peripheral awareness that's baked into status updates. Sure, some of what you say is brilliant, but mostly I like the tempo of the connection, the reminder of personality and quirks, the feeling of being part of humanity even when I'm sitting in my living room. danah On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-)
how do you feel about Oscar Wilde.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter.
Nancy
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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------ "taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
Yes, these complaints so often rest on an idealized version of face to face interaction and relationships in which every interaction is richly rewarding. At least tweets are really short, unlike some of the conversations we get stuck in with friends and acquaintances. On Oct 31, 2009, at 4:04 PM, "danah boyd" <aoir.z3z@danah.org> wrote:
Life isn't so neatly compartmentalized. Remove the internet for a moment. My guess is that you have dear friends who are sometimes brilliant to speak with and sometimes, not so much. You don't reject them as friends just because not all of the conversations are brilliant. Likewise, you have colleagues who you have intensely philosophical debates with but, when standing in line for lunch, the conversation centers around something else. We can value people for just one facet of their lives but our friends and other intimates are more than that. Of course, perhaps you have friends who could never stop talking about their kids so you stopped inviting them to dinner parties. This happens too. But none of our strong connections with people are truly always on topic. We just easily forget the chitter chatter and remember the deeply meaningful.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves: Why is it that, when we go online, we want to optimize for the brilliant conversations only? Why do we want to reduce our connections down to only one facet? Is this because of the asynchronicity? Is it because of our self- involvement? Or something else?
Personally, I like the peripheral awareness that's baked into status updates. Sure, some of what you say is brilliant, but mostly I like the tempo of the connection, the reminder of personality and quirks, the feeling of being part of humanity even when I'm sitting in my living room.
danah
On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-)
how do you feel about Oscar Wilde.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter.
Nancy
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http:// aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
------
"taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
These are, of course, very similar to concerns, stories, fears, and positives about the telephone from the late 1870s on for many decades. Similar concerns about postcards, email, citizens' band radio. ======================================================= Ronald E. Rice Arthur N. Rupe Chair in the Social Effects of Mass Communication Co-Director, Carsey-Wolf Center for Film, Television, and New Media President of the International Communication Association 2006-2007 Dept. of Communication, 4005 Social Sciences & Media Studies Bldg. University of California Santa Barbara, CA 93106-4020 Ph: 805-893-8696; Fax: 805-893-7102 rrice@comm.ucsb.edu http://www.comm.ucsb.edu/people/faculty/rice.php http://www.cftnm.ucsb.edu/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: "danah boyd" <aoir.z3z@danah.org> Cc: "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca>; "aoir list" <air-l@aoir.org> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2009 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Yes, these complaints so often rest on an idealized version of face to face interaction and relationships in which every interaction is richly rewarding. At least tweets are really short, unlike some of the conversations we get stuck in with friends and acquaintances.
On Oct 31, 2009, at 4:04 PM, "danah boyd" <aoir.z3z@danah.org> wrote:
Life isn't so neatly compartmentalized. Remove the internet for a moment. My guess is that you have dear friends who are sometimes brilliant to speak with and sometimes, not so much. You don't reject them as friends just because not all of the conversations are brilliant. Likewise, you have colleagues who you have intensely philosophical debates with but, when standing in line for lunch, the conversation centers around something else. We can value people for just one facet of their lives but our friends and other intimates are more than that. Of course, perhaps you have friends who could never stop talking about their kids so you stopped inviting them to dinner parties. This happens too. But none of our strong connections with people are truly always on topic. We just easily forget the chitter chatter and remember the deeply meaningful.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves: Why is it that, when we go online, we want to optimize for the brilliant conversations only? Why do we want to reduce our connections down to only one facet? Is this because of the asynchronicity? Is it because of our self- involvement? Or something else?
Personally, I like the peripheral awareness that's baked into status updates. Sure, some of what you say is brilliant, but mostly I like the tempo of the connection, the reminder of personality and quirks, the feeling of being part of humanity even when I'm sitting in my living room.
danah
On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-)
how do you feel about Oscar Wilde.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter.
Nancy
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http:// aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
------
"taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
OTOH, You do have to take the role of the other. And who the heck cares that you had eggs for breakfast, other than you and your partner? Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________ S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________ On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, danah boyd wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:03:56 -0400 From: danah boyd <aoir.z3z@danah.org> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu>, aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Life isn't so neatly compartmentalized. Remove the internet for a moment. My guess is that you have dear friends who are sometimes brilliant to speak with and sometimes, not so much. You don't reject them as friends just because not all of the conversations are brilliant. Likewise, you have colleagues who you have intensely philosophical debates with but, when standing in line for lunch, the conversation centers around something else. We can value people for just one facet of their lives but our friends and other intimates are more than that. Of course, perhaps you have friends who could never stop talking about their kids so you stopped inviting them to dinner parties. This happens too. But none of our strong connections with people are truly always on topic. We just easily forget the chitter chatter and remember the deeply meaningful.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves: Why is it that, when we go online, we want to optimize for the brilliant conversations only? Why do we want to reduce our connections down to only one facet? Is this because of the asynchronicity? Is it because of our self- involvement? Or something else?
Personally, I like the peripheral awareness that's baked into status updates. Sure, some of what you say is brilliant, but mostly I like the tempo of the connection, the reminder of personality and quirks, the feeling of being part of humanity even when I'm sitting in my living room.
danah
On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-)
how do you feel about Oscar Wilde.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter.
Nancy
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
------
"taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
But there are often hundreds of others with differing interests and more may care what someone ate than you think. The Other is not a monolith that agrees on the value of all posts. I am often surprised how much I enjoy food posts of people to whom I am not close and how bored I am by things that are "supposed" to be "interesting." On Oct 31, 2009, at 4:57 PM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
OTOH, You do have to take the role of the other.
And who the heck cares that you had eggs for breakfast, other than you and your partner?
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, danah boyd wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:03:56 -0400 From: danah boyd <aoir.z3z@danah.org> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu>, aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Life isn't so neatly compartmentalized. Remove the internet for a moment. My guess is that you have dear friends who are sometimes brilliant to speak with and sometimes, not so much. You don't reject them as friends just because not all of the conversations are brilliant. Likewise, you have colleagues who you have intensely philosophical debates with but, when standing in line for lunch, the conversation centers around something else. We can value people for just one facet of their lives but our friends and other intimates are more than that. Of course, perhaps you have friends who could never stop talking about their kids so you stopped inviting them to dinner parties. This happens too. But none of our strong connections with people are truly always on topic. We just easily forget the chitter chatter and remember the deeply meaningful.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves: Why is it that, when we go online, we want to optimize for the brilliant conversations only? Why do we want to reduce our connections down to only one facet? Is this because of the asynchronicity? Is it because of our self- involvement? Or something else?
Personally, I like the peripheral awareness that's baked into status updates. Sure, some of what you say is brilliant, but mostly I like the tempo of the connection, the reminder of personality and quirks, the feeling of being part of humanity even when I'm sitting in my living room.
danah
On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-)
how do you feel about Oscar Wilde.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax: +1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/ cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter.
Nancy
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
------
"taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
Food posts are surprisingly compelling; when I post and update in FB about things I'm baking or cooking, especially if they involve sweets, I get more comments than on almost any other kind of update. Food is an interest almost everyone shares, and what people eat can be pretty revealing of their personality and day-to-day life. On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Baym, Nancy <nbaym@ku.edu> wrote:
But there are often hundreds of others with differing interests and more may care what someone ate than you think. The Other is not a monolith that agrees on the value of all posts.
I am often surprised how much I enjoy food posts of people to whom I am not close and how bored I am by things that are "supposed" to be "interesting."
On Oct 31, 2009, at 4:57 PM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
OTOH, You do have to take the role of the other.
And who the heck cares that you had eggs for breakfast, other than you and your partner?
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, danah boyd wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:03:56 -0400 From: danah boyd <aoir.z3z@danah.org> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu>, aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Life isn't so neatly compartmentalized. Remove the internet for a moment. My guess is that you have dear friends who are sometimes brilliant to speak with and sometimes, not so much. You don't reject them as friends just because not all of the conversations are brilliant. Likewise, you have colleagues who you have intensely philosophical debates with but, when standing in line for lunch, the conversation centers around something else. We can value people for just one facet of their lives but our friends and other intimates are more than that. Of course, perhaps you have friends who could never stop talking about their kids so you stopped inviting them to dinner parties. This happens too. But none of our strong connections with people are truly always on topic. We just easily forget the chitter chatter and remember the deeply meaningful.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves: Why is it that, when we go online, we want to optimize for the brilliant conversations only? Why do we want to reduce our connections down to only one facet? Is this because of the asynchronicity? Is it because of our self- involvement? Or something else?
Personally, I like the peripheral awareness that's baked into status updates. Sure, some of what you say is brilliant, but mostly I like the tempo of the connection, the reminder of personality and quirks, the feeling of being part of humanity even when I'm sitting in my living room.
danah
On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-)
how do you feel about Oscar Wilde.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter.
Nancy
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
------
"taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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-- Kim De Vries http://kdevries.net/blog/
This is developing into an "interesting" converstion, at least to me. I think one aspect that we should think about (which might explain a bit of what we enjoy when) is the "uses and gratifications" of logging onto Facebook at a particular time. The way you use Facebook (or any other Web site), or the functions that the Web site does for you will be a factor in what you find "interesting" or "uninteresting" at any given time. For example, if you're on Facebook primarily to find out what's happening in your community or what might not be available via your mainstream media (such as is the case for some here in Egypt), you will find that you add people you might not know personally but who at times act as credible news sources or who we know as "Internet activists." If these people start talking about what they had for dinner, you might not appreciate that because that's not what you had in mind or wanted from these people, even though it's certainly their right to do so. On the other hand, if your account is strictly comprised of people who are actually friends or acquiantances in real life, you might be more tolerant of personal status updates, in fact, you might want to know who is feeling happy or sad or bored, or who ate what for dinner.... If you want to know what cultural activities your friends are going to, that becomes your interest and anything else more "serious" or more "trivial" becomes less interesting. It all depends on what you are looking for at a given moment in time. But since people are not there just to fulfill your needs, most of the time you have to take the "interesting" (to you) with the less interesting, unless all of a person's posts become uninteresting to you. For example, I've taken off one person from my Friends list because all he was doing was promoting certain products that I was not interested in. That person's use of Facebook shifted into an obviously marketing tool, and consequently my interest in his status updates and postings declined. Since he wasn't a real "friend," I simply took him off the list. It all depends on what how you use the site, and what you expect out of it. Best regards to all. Rasha -- Rasha A. Abdulla, Ph.D. Assistant Professor and Graduate Director Journalism and Mass Communication The American University in Cairo www.rashaabdulla.com
I suspect that food discussion -- as in daily food activity, preparation, recipe sharing, etc. -- is an aspect of female oriented discussion. It wraps in issues of domesticity, caring for others, etc. Gender experts may now jump in! /Caroline ---- Original message ----
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:51:52 -0700 From: KMV <cuuixsilver@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances To: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org>
Food posts are surprisingly compelling; when I post and update in FB about things I'm baking or cooking, especially if they involve sweets, I get more comments than on almost any other kind of update. Food is an interest almost everyone shares, and what people eat can be pretty revealing of their personality and day-to-day life.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Baym, Nancy <nbaym@ku.edu> wrote:
But there are often hundreds of others with differing interests and more may care what someone ate than you think. The Other is not a monolith that agrees on the value of all posts.
I am often surprised how much I enjoy food posts of people to whom I am not close and how bored I am by things that are "supposed" to be "interesting."
On Oct 31, 2009, at 4:57 PM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
OTOH, You do have to take the role of the other.
And who the heck cares that you had eggs for breakfast, other than you and your partner?
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, danah boyd wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:03:56 -0400 From: danah boyd <aoir.z3z@danah.org> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu>, aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Life isn't so neatly compartmentalized. Remove the internet for a moment. My guess is that you have dear friends who are sometimes brilliant to speak with and sometimes, not so much. You don't reject them as friends just because not all of the conversations are brilliant. Likewise, you have colleagues who you have intensely philosophical debates with but, when standing in line for lunch, the conversation centers around something else. We can value people for just one facet of their lives but our friends and other intimates are more than that. Of course, perhaps you have friends who could never stop talking about their kids so you stopped inviting them to dinner parties. This happens too. But none of our strong connections with people are truly always on topic. We just easily forget the chitter chatter and remember the deeply meaningful.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves: Why is it that, when we go online, we want to optimize for the brilliant conversations only? Why do we want to reduce our connections down to only one facet? Is this because of the asynchronicity? Is it because of our self- involvement? Or something else?
Personally, I like the peripheral awareness that's baked into status updates. Sure, some of what you say is brilliant, but mostly I like the tempo of the connection, the reminder of personality and quirks, the feeling of being part of humanity even when I'm sitting in my living room.
danah
On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-)
how do you feel about Oscar Wilde.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter.
Nancy
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> 1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really > interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at > the same > posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for > breakfast") > ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost > all. > >
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Caroline Haythornthwaite Professor, Graduate School of Library and Information Science, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 501 East Daniel St., Champaign IL 61820 haythorn@illinois.edu OR haythorn@uiuc.edu
There is an interesting tension between the messages we send and receive in the intimate sphere that has a very concrete common frame of reference ("can you pick up the kids today at school"), the somewhat broader sphere of special groups (job, free time activities, etc) that can take for granted a common frame of reference, and then the wide wide world of other people ("I am sure that the millions of people following me on Twitter will be glad to know I have received the Nobel prize in . . . ) It is hard, and perhaps impossible to frame comments that are equally relevant for the different groups. Where some comments are intended as an invitation for interaction, others are more along the lines of promotion. It might be interesting to think about power differences between the senders and receivers. Who do you feel that you can send a response to a tweet and engage them in some type of meaningful interaction (though the medium is not really set up in that way) and who would likely not respond to any reply? Rich L. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Caroline Haythornthwaite Sent: 1. november 2009 11:59 To: KMV; aoir list Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances I suspect that food discussion -- as in daily food activity, preparation, recipe sharing, etc. -- is an aspect of female oriented discussion. It wraps in issues of domesticity, caring for others, etc. Gender experts may now jump in! /Caroline ---- Original message ----
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:51:52 -0700 From: KMV <cuuixsilver@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances To: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org>
Food posts are surprisingly compelling; when I post and update in FB about things I'm baking or cooking, especially if they involve sweets, I get more comments than on almost any other kind of update. Food is an interest almost everyone shares, and what people eat can be pretty revealing of their personality and day-to-day life.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Baym, Nancy <nbaym@ku.edu> wrote:
But there are often hundreds of others with differing interests and more may care what someone ate than you think. The Other is not a monolith that agrees on the value of all posts.
I am often surprised how much I enjoy food posts of people to whom I am not close and how bored I am by things that are "supposed" to be "interesting."
On Oct 31, 2009, at 4:57 PM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
OTOH, You do have to take the role of the other.
And who the heck cares that you had eggs for breakfast, other than you and your partner?
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, danah boyd wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:03:56 -0400 From: danah boyd <aoir.z3z@danah.org> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu>, aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Life isn't so neatly compartmentalized. Remove the internet for a moment. My guess is that you have dear friends who are sometimes brilliant to speak with and sometimes, not so much. You don't reject them as friends just because not all of the conversations are brilliant. Likewise, you have colleagues who you have intensely philosophical debates with but, when standing in line for lunch, the conversation centers around something else. We can value people for just one facet of their lives but our friends and other intimates are more than that. Of course, perhaps you have friends who could never stop talking about their kids so you stopped inviting them to dinner parties. This happens too. But none of our strong connections with people are truly always on topic. We just easily forget the chitter chatter and remember the deeply meaningful.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves: Why is it that, when we go online, we want to optimize for the brilliant conversations only? Why do we want to reduce our connections down to only one facet? Is this because of the asynchronicity? Is it because of our self- involvement? Or something else?
Personally, I like the peripheral awareness that's baked into status updates. Sure, some of what you say is brilliant, but mostly I like the tempo of the connection, the reminder of personality and quirks, the feeling of being part of humanity even when I'm sitting in my living room.
danah
On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-)
how do you feel about Oscar Wilde.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's followers funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is annoyed by all those professionally tinged informational links. "Interesting" is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's response to a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption from one's own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, they may not be the people most important to the tweeter.
Nancy
On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> 1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really > interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at > the same > posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for > breakfast") > ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost > all. > >
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------
"taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
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Caroline Haythornthwaite Professor, Graduate School of Library and Information Science, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 501 East Daniel St., Champaign IL 61820 haythorn@illinois.edu OR haythorn@uiuc.edu _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
FYI: Two newly created faculty positions are open at Elon University. Elon is a private university of 5,000 students and nearly 700 graduate students in the heart of North Carolina. Newsweek recently named Elon the nation¹s leading college for engaged learning. U.S. News & World Report ranks Elon #2 among the 199 master¹s-level universities in the South. The University is located in the corridor that includes Duke, Wake Forest and UNC Chapel Hill. Elon¹s campus is designated as a botanical garden. INTERACTIVE MEDIA POSITION Elon University, NC: We seek a faculty member with a Ph.D. and professional experience to teach undergraduate and graduate courses in interactive media. The ideal candidate will have an interactive media professional background and a theory driven scholarship agenda in interactive design and/or strategies. Dr. Connie Book, associate dean of the school, is chairing these searches. Please send an application letter, CV and list of references to imediasearch@elon.edu <mailto:imediasearch@elon.edu> . MULTIMEDIA POSITION Elon University, NC: We seek a faculty member with a terminal degree (Ph.D. or M.F.A.) and professional experience in digital media to teach courses in visual design and basic multimedia production. This faculty member will teach a core course required of undergraduate majors in communication, Digital Media Convergence. In this course students learn design theory and a broad range of hardware and software skills. Skills include, but are not limited to, graphic design, photography, audio/video and web-design work. The successful applicant¹s area of expertise can be in any of the following fields: should be rooted in broadcast, cinema, journalism, new media, photojournalism, strategic communications or other related field. The ideal candidate will have a strong digital media background and a solid theoretical foundation. When applying please specify your hardware and software skills and include examples of work in the form of a digital portfolio available online or by DVD. Dr. Connie Book, associate dean of the school, is chairing these searches. Please send an application letter, CV and list of references to multimediasearch@elon.edu <mailto:multimediasearch@elon.edu> Elon¹s nationally accredited School of Communications is home to almost 20 percent of the student body. Students select among majors in Journalism, Strategic Communications, Media Arts & Entertainment (broadcast and cinema), and Communication Science. The School also offers an M.A. in Interactive Media. The School of Communications has six Mac labs, two television studios, and a large field production inventory for faculty and students. Final Cut Studio 7, Adobe CS4 Design Premium, and Pro Tools 8 are the primary software tools currently used in our curriculum. The school is known for having one of the best technology infrastructures in the nation. To learn more about the School of Communications, visit http://www.elon.edu/communications. -- Janna Quitney Anderson Associate Professor School of Communications Elon University andersj@elon.edu (336) 278-5733 (o)
I am not a gender expert nor female but without a doubt photos that I post on Facebook of whatever it is I made for dinner get more comments than anything else. Although I never analyzed it, on the surface comments appear to contain the same type of content and are in similar numbers regaurdless of gender. I think it might be as simple as people like food. Edward Sent from my iPhone On Nov 1, 2009, at 4:59 AM, Caroline Haythornthwaite <haythorn@illinois.edu
wrote:
I suspect that food discussion -- as in daily food activity, preparation, recipe sharing, etc. -- is an aspect of female oriented discussion. It wraps in issues of domesticity, caring for others, etc.
Gender experts may now jump in!
/Caroline
---- Original message ----
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:51:52 -0700 From: KMV <cuuixsilver@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances To: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org>
Food posts are surprisingly compelling; when I post and update in FB about things I'm baking or cooking, especially if they involve sweets, I get more comments than on almost any other kind of update. Food is an interest almost everyone shares, and what people eat can be pretty revealing of their personality and day-to-day life.
On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Baym, Nancy <nbaym@ku.edu> wrote:
But there are often hundreds of others with differing interests and more may care what someone ate than you think. The Other is not a monolith that agrees on the value of all posts.
I am often surprised how much I enjoy food posts of people to whom I am not close and how bored I am by things that are "supposed" to be "interesting."
On Oct 31, 2009, at 4:57 PM, "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca
wrote:
OTOH, You do have to take the role of the other.
And who the heck cares that you had eggs for breakfast, other than you and your partner?
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, danah boyd wrote:
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:03:56 -0400 From: danah boyd <aoir.z3z@danah.org> To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> Cc: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu>, aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances
Life isn't so neatly compartmentalized. Remove the internet for a moment. My guess is that you have dear friends who are sometimes brilliant to speak with and sometimes, not so much. You don't reject them as friends just because not all of the conversations are brilliant. Likewise, you have colleagues who you have intensely philosophical debates with but, when standing in line for lunch, the conversation centers around something else. We can value people for just one facet of their lives but our friends and other intimates are more than that. Of course, perhaps you have friends who could never stop talking about their kids so you stopped inviting them to dinner parties. This happens too. But none of our strong connections with people are truly always on topic. We just easily forget the chitter chatter and remember the deeply meaningful.
Perhaps we should be asking ourselves: Why is it that, when we go online, we want to optimize for the brilliant conversations only? Why do we want to reduce our connections down to only one facet? Is this because of the asynchronicity? Is it because of our self- involvement? Or something else?
Personally, I like the peripheral awareness that's baked into status updates. Sure, some of what you say is brilliant, but mostly I like the tempo of the connection, the reminder of personality and quirks, the feeling of being part of humanity even when I'm sitting in my living room.
danah
On Oct 31, 2009, at 11:41 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
sounds like we need multiple twitter accounts. but life may not be so neatly compartmentalized;-)
how do you feel about Oscar Wilde.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Department of Sociology 725 Spadina Avenue, Room 388 University of Toronto Toronto Canada M5S 2J4 twitter:barrywellman http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman fax:+1-416-978-3963 Updating history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php _______________________________________________________________________
On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Baym, Nancy wrote:
> Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 10:34:00 -0500 > From: "Baym, Nancy" <nbaym@ku.edu> > To: Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> > Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> > Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances > > Of course it's complex. But what if another of that person's > followers > funds the food updates a lovely way to feel connected but is > annoyed > by all those professionally tinged informational links. > "Interesting" > is not a quality of message but of a particular listener's > response > to > a message. "Almost all" is often an unwarranted assumption > from one's > own point of view. Furthermore, even if "almost all" holds, > they may > not be the people most important to the tweeter. > > Nancy > > > > On Oct 31, 2009, at 10:06 AM, "Barry Wellman" > <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote: > >> 1. Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really >> interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, >> but at >> the same >> posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for >> breakfast") >> ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to >> almost >> all. >> >> >
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------
"taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
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Caroline Haythornthwaite Professor, Graduate School of Library and Information Science, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 501 East Daniel St., Champaign IL 61820 haythorn@illinois.edu OR haythorn@uiuc.edu
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I have done some writing on digital self management. I believe we're actually dealing with a new form of social interaction and also a new form of self-governance. If we were to be systematic about this Facebook inquiry, I imagine we might find: * Selves "post" on Facebook as a way of managing identity. Impression management is complicated by the multiplicity of "fronts" (in Goffman's sens) on Facebook * Gender mediates not the topic but the nuance of the post * (Hypothesis): women post in accordance with expectations of managing household responsibilities, "taking care" or nurturing those in the household, showing an interest or mastery of household members' preferences or medical needs * (Hypothesis) men post in accordance with expectations of dominance over a field of knowledge, showing a mastery of masculinized food activities such as "gourmet" pursuits or barbequeing * Both genders engage in impression management while at the same time participating in similar topics (e.g., food) * The projection of self through text, photo and other media, is a new skill that will increasingly be required as more and more of our lives become mediated by "posting" and more and more confused, multi-front virtual locations emerge On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Edward M. Corrado <ecorrado@ecorrado.us>wrote:
I am not a gender expert nor female but without a doubt photos that I post on Facebook of whatever it is I made for dinner get more comments than anything else. Although I never analyzed it, on the surface comments appear to contain the same type of content and are in similar numbers regaurdless of gender. I think it might be as simple as people like food.
Edward
I appreciate your analysis, Sam, but, as with most categorizations, I think these are more tendencies than gender absolutes. The element that puzzles me the most about Twitter especially is--if you look at comments on technology blogs--its mere existence annoys some people. They always bring out the comment "I don't care what you had for lunch" or "I don't care about your cat" when participating is, for most people, completely voluntary and you control whose messages you see. I don't understand why it hits a nerve with some individuals and they simply loathe it when there is no necessity to utilize it. I mean, I don't like computer games so I don't play them. I don't go on a tirade about them and don't belittle those who enjoy them. I need to do some background reading on why people get emotional about technology. Liz Pullen nwjerseyliz@yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Sam Ladner <samladner@gmail.com> To: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org> Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 11:20:34 AM Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances I have done some writing on digital self management. I believe we're actually dealing with a new form of social interaction and also a new form of self-governance. If we were to be systematic about this Facebook inquiry, I imagine we might find: * Selves "post" on Facebook as a way of managing identity. Impression management is complicated by the multiplicity of "fronts" (in Goffman's sens) on Facebook * Gender mediates not the topic but the nuance of the post * (Hypothesis): women post in accordance with expectations of managing household responsibilities, "taking care" or nurturing those in the household, showing an interest or mastery of household members' preferences or medical needs * (Hypothesis) men post in accordance with expectations of dominance over a field of knowledge, showing a mastery of masculinized food activities such as "gourmet" pursuits or barbequeing * Both genders engage in impression management while at the same time participating in similar topics (e.g., food) * The projection of self through text, photo and other media, is a new skill that will increasingly be required as more and more of our lives become mediated by "posting" and more and more confused, multi-front virtual locations emerge
When it comes to food status updates, I also think that the value goes beyond the food itself. Food is part of ritualized culture and sharing is common with food itself. All around the world, people sit down for a meal with people in their lives. There is no food in online interactions. There is no alcohol either. All we have are performances of food (and alcohol). It's not the same, but there's still some endearing about it, a feeling of peripheral awareness, a feeling of togetherness when apart, a feeling of commonality and patterns and daily flows. My mother used to post about what she ate and I loved it; it let me feel her presence in a way that's not possible from far away. I loved seeing the habits of her life, not because they are important to strangers, but because they are important to me. I'm sure there are folks on this list who are more versed in food culture than I am, but I just want to say that I appreciate those in my intimate sphere talking about their food. There's something comforting about the simplicity of it. danah ------ "taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
I also find the discussion very interesting and would hope that someone will look into this as a research topic. There is something almost intimate, though at the same time casual, about food updates. Sharing a bit of someone's daily life can help create a sense of connectedness, assuming you care for the person as such to begin with. If you're following someone simply as an information source, you might not care at all. So, in a completely fictional example: Who would be interested in hearing what the Huffington Post recommends for breakfast? Assuming those who visit the website do so in search of information that is broadly deemed news-worthy, no one would. Readers and fans of Arianna Huffington may on the other hand like to hear what she had for breakfast and thus remotely partake in the daily ritual that one would typically only share with partners and friends. I guess this would be a typical case for a uses and gratifications approach, though food culture in particular would also be interesting to focus on. On Nov 2, 2009, at 8:15 AM, danah boyd wrote:
When it comes to food status updates, I also think that the value goes beyond the food itself. Food is part of ritualized culture and sharing is common with food itself. All around the world, people sit down for a meal with people in their lives. There is no food in online interactions. There is no alcohol either. All we have are performances of food (and alcohol). It's not the same, but there's still some endearing about it, a feeling of peripheral awareness, a feeling of togetherness when apart, a feeling of commonality and patterns and daily flows. My mother used to post about what she ate and I loved it; it let me feel her presence in a way that's not possible from far away. I loved seeing the habits of her life, not because they are important to strangers, but because they are important to me.
I'm sure there are folks on this list who are more versed in food culture than I am, but I just want to say that I appreciate those in my intimate sphere talking about their food. There's something comforting about the simplicity of it.
danah
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"taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
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It's interesting also to see all the nonsense about Stephen Fry's twittering habits that is consuming the UK news ... he left in a huff over a comment that his tweets were boring ... but is back (for those concerned!). http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/01/stephen-fry-twitter-quit-threat And, re food tweeting http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/nicholas-lezard-so-youre-e... Note that I get my twitter news from traditional media -- Maybe newspapers have found a new niche! /Caroline ---- Original message ----
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2009 15:40:11 +0800 From: Giorgos Cheliotis <gcheliotis.lists@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Air-L] facebook, twitter and annoyances To: danah boyd <aoir.z3z@danah.org> Cc: aoir list <air-l@aoir.org>
I also find the discussion very interesting and would hope that someone will look into this as a research topic. There is something almost intimate, though at the same time casual, about food updates. Sharing a bit of someone's daily life can help create a sense of connectedness, assuming you care for the person as such to begin with. If you're following someone simply as an information source, you might not care at all. So, in a completely fictional example:
Who would be interested in hearing what the Huffington Post recommends for breakfast? Assuming those who visit the website do so in search of information that is broadly deemed news-worthy, no one would. Readers and fans of Arianna Huffington may on the other hand like to hear what she had for breakfast and thus remotely partake in the daily ritual that one would typically only share with partners and friends.
I guess this would be a typical case for a uses and gratifications approach, though food culture in particular would also be interesting to focus on.
On Nov 2, 2009, at 8:15 AM, danah boyd wrote:
When it comes to food status updates, I also think that the value goes beyond the food itself. Food is part of ritualized culture and sharing is common with food itself. All around the world, people sit down for a meal with people in their lives. There is no food in online interactions. There is no alcohol either. All we have are performances of food (and alcohol). It's not the same, but there's still some endearing about it, a feeling of peripheral awareness, a feeling of togetherness when apart, a feeling of commonality and patterns and daily flows. My mother used to post about what she ate and I loved it; it let me feel her presence in a way that's not possible from far away. I loved seeing the habits of her life, not because they are important to strangers, but because they are important to me.
I'm sure there are folks on this list who are more versed in food culture than I am, but I just want to say that I appreciate those in my intimate sphere talking about their food. There's something comforting about the simplicity of it.
danah
------
"taken out of context, i must seem so strange" -- ani http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/ http://www.danah.org/ @zephoria
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Caroline Haythornthwaite Professor, Graduate School of Library and Information Science, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 501 East Daniel St., Champaign IL 61820 haythorn@illinois.edu OR haythorn@uiuc.edu
FYI, please also feel free to pass this on to interested networks and groups. Cheers- Heidi ==================================================== Call for Papers for Special Issue of Information, Communication & Society on Religion and the Internet: The Online-Offline Connection Guest Editors: Heidi Campbell & Mia Løvheim Call Description In the initial waves of religion and internet research focus was often placed on how the internet would drastically change religious practice and ideology, due to growth of religious communities online and integration of religious rituals and practices into digital environments. Much attention was given to the novel uses and trends such as those seen in New Religious Movements online where once fringe or secretive religious groups were given a public platform making them more visible. Focus was also placed on how mainstream religions, such as Christianity and Islam, were appropriating to new media technologies or critiquing internet use and with a particular focus on the United states and Western Europe. As the internet has become increasingly embedded in the everyday lives of many researchers attention is now being drawn to the connection between online and offline religious practice, structures and belief. Furthermore, the rise of new software and models of internet communication, often referred to as Web 2.0, has created a heightened interest in issues of user lead content creation and web based social interaction. At the heart of these developments is an important issue, considering to what degree spiritual practices online are transformative or to what extent they reflect larger changes in religious culture and institutions offline. This special issue of Information, Communication and Society (http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/rics) seeks to explore this area by considering what we think we know about the relationship between online and offline religion and what issues are still are in need of more detailed investigation. Aims and Scope In particular this special issues aims to explore the relationship between online and offline forms of religious practice and community. Key questions include: - What is truly unique about the performance of religion online? - How is the practice and conception of religion online connected to offline practices, communities and institutions? - In what ways does religion online reflect trends seen offline in religious culture and practice? - How do these transformations connect with issues of globalization and glocalization? Possible topics may include (but are not limited to): - The interactions between online communities and offline religious institutions - How participants in online religious activities frame their involvement in offline religious groups - Responses of offline religious authorities to religious manifestations and practices online from their community or tradition - Religious organizations and/or denominations use of the internet, or debates regarding official policy towards and new media use - Attempts of diasporic communities to connect with their faith tradition and sacred sites via the Internet - Theoretical work that links research on contemporary religious practice to online religion, i.e. the relationship between internet use and everyday religion, the role of emotions in religious internet use - How religious actors deal with questions of time, space and information management in online and offline society - How Virtual worlds and computer games seek to present or re-present "sacred space" Submission Details Please submit a 300-500 word abstract to the guest editors as an e-mail attachment to religiononline@yahoo.com no later than 10 February 2010. The four best abstracts will also be submitted as a panel for consideration at the International Media, Religion and Culture Conference to be held in Toronto, Canada (9-13 August 2010, http://journalism.ryerson.ca/cms/websites/CMRC2010/index.aspx). Please include full contact information and a biographical note (up to 75 words) on each of the authors and indicate whether you wish to be considered for the MRC panel submission. Authors of accepted abstracts will be notified by 6 March 2010 and will then be invited to submit a full paper to the guest editors. Final manuscripts should be no more than 8,000 words, including notes and references, conform to APA style, and submitted by 20 August 2010. Please note all papers will be subject to anonymous peer review following submission. Important dates: 10 February 2010: Deadline for abstract submission 6 March 2010: Announcement of results and full paper invitations 9-13 August: MRC Conference 20 August 2010: Submission of full papers October 2011: Publication of special issue For Inquiries, abstracts, or submission of full papers should be addressed to: Heidi Campbell Assistant Professor of Communication Department of Communication Texas A&M University Bolton 102, 4234 TAMU College Station, TX 77843 Email: religiononine@yahoo.com or heidic@tamu.edu phone: 1-979-847-9474 ============================================ Heidi Campbell, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Department of Communication Texas A&M University College Station TX 77843-4234 (email) heidic@tamu.edu (web) http://comm.tamu.edu/people/profiles/campbell.html ============================================
Dear All, The journal of humanities and cultural studies is going to be published bi-annually by the Institute of Humanities and Cultural Studies in Tehran-Iran. The journal is aimed to explore issues of contemporary and historical significance from a non-Eurocentric point of departure and welcomes alternative approaches to social sciences problems. We would be more than happy to have you onboard either in the editorial board or advisory board of our new founded journal. best wishes Dr. Seyed Javad Miri Visiting Professor of Sociology Institute of Humanities and Cultural Studies Tehran Iran _________________________________________________________________ New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windows/buy/
On 31-Oct-09, at 11:06 AM, Barry Wellman wrote:
Nancy, I think it is more complex. What if there are really interesting people whose posts are often filled with gems, but at the same posts some self-infatuated or status update stuff ("going for breakfast") ("sitting in my garden") stuff which is not interesting to almost all.
"All"... a statistical term used in generalizations. My "all" on facebook is only my friends who almost all expect a few aoirs, I have met face to face and shared some good times. These are often coworkers, high school friends, musicians in my scene and a few bosses, family etc. As I set my stuff there to viewable "only by my friends" I not so sure in my case that your claim that this is all uninteresting holds. It is your judgment or someone else's like the journalist's but hey who are you/they to say? Most of my status updates are these ordinary day to day things like today I am telling people I am home doing paperwork but will be going downtown shopping today. Now I think, I and others do post witty stuff as well. I am a poet at times. But sharing wit with friends is cool too. I am not writing on facebook for the mass media, as my blogs can do that if people are interested in the themes I write about. I think you are assuming these interesting people are public and I am talking about a private facebook social network. Not private from the adverts but private for the ordinary person. I am sure you know something of private networks so now what do you say? Peter Timusk, B.Math statistics (2002), B.A. legal studies (2006) Carleton University Systems Science Graduate student, University of Ottawa. just trying to stay linear. Read by hundreds of lurkers every week. kiitos paljon, merci, thank you and muchas gracias for reading.
participants (16)
-
Barry Wellman -
Baym, Nancy -
Caroline Haythornthwaite -
danah boyd -
Dr. Rasha Abdulla -
Edward M. Corrado -
Giorgos Cheliotis -
Heidi Campbell -
Janna Anderson -
KMV -
Liz -
Peter Timusk -
richard.ling＠telenor.com -
Ronald E. Rice -
Sam Ladner -
Seyed Javad