book announcement
Dear AoIR-ists, Mia Consalvo and I are *extremely* proud and pleased to announce the publication of the Handbook of Internet Studies from Wiley-Blackwell - first of all, because the volume features the impressive work of many AoIRists. The book is an introduction to the field and assessment of current research in Internet Studies, providing history and context as well as commentary and debate about where the field is heading and what key issues must be addressed in future work. The volume is comprehensive in scope, addressing the development of internet studies in areas including the history of the field, methods for interdisciplinary study, youth and teens online, politics, health communication, games and virtual worlds, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, religion, social networks, and much, much more. The list of contributors is even more impressive-- we have contributions from Maria Bakardijeva, Naomi Baron, Nancy Baym, Sandra Braman, Janne Bromseth, Niels Brügger, Klaus Bruhn Jensen, Elizabeth Buchanan, Heidi Campbell, Laurel Dyson, Lorna Heaton, Steve Jones, Lori Kendall, Sonia Livingstone, Marika Lüders, P. David Marshall, Susanna Paasonen, Jennifer Stromer-Galley, Jenny Sundén, TL Taylor, Barry Wellman, Deborah Wheeler, and Alexis Wichowski. For more information about the book, please check the Amazon page at: <http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Internet-Studies-Handbooks-Communication/dp/ 1405185880/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299561410&sr=1-1-fkmr0> We congratulate these scholars and researchers for what we find to be definitive contributions to internet studies as an emerging field. We also see the book as a distinctive and, we think, eloquent artifact of AoIR, as it documents and demonstrates the kinds of collaboration, critical dialogue, and collegial support fostered by AoIR as crucial conditions for the interdisciplinary and international work required for internet studies. We are very grateful indeed to our contributors and all who help make AoIR work in these ways for making this volume possible. Enjoy! - charles and Mia charles ess Institut for Informations- og Medievidenskab Helsingforsgade 14 8200 Århus N. Denmark mail: <imvce@hum.au.dk> tel: (+45) 8942 9250 Professor, Philosophy and Religion Drury University, Springfield, Missouri 65802 USA Exemplary persons seek harmony, not sameness. -- Analects 13.23
Congratulations! It looks like a great volume:) Jeremy Hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture Virginia Tech Live without dead time. -graffitti Paris 1968
Charles- The Amazon link you sent lists the book at $US 200 (well ok $199.95 and then a discount, but $200). Is that accurate? I know that's the hardcover, but if that's the price how is anyone going to buy it? Even the Kindle edition is $150. -Nat. On Mar 8, 2011, at 12:23 AM, Charles Ess wrote:
Dear AoIR-ists,
Mia Consalvo and I are *extremely* proud and pleased to announce the publication of the Handbook of Internet Studies from Wiley-Blackwell - first of all, because the volume features the impressive work of many AoIRists. The book is an introduction to the field and assessment of current research in Internet Studies, providing history and context as well as commentary and debate about where the field is heading and what key issues must be addressed in future work. The volume is comprehensive in scope, addressing the development of internet studies in areas including the history of the field, methods for interdisciplinary study, youth and teens online, politics, health communication, games and virtual worlds, gender, sexuality, ethnicity, religion, social networks, and much, much more.
The list of contributors is even more impressive-- we have contributions from Maria Bakardijeva, Naomi Baron, Nancy Baym, Sandra Braman, Janne Bromseth, Niels Brügger, Klaus Bruhn Jensen, Elizabeth Buchanan, Heidi Campbell, Laurel Dyson, Lorna Heaton, Steve Jones, Lori Kendall, Sonia Livingstone, Marika Lüders, P. David Marshall, Susanna Paasonen, Jennifer Stromer-Galley, Jenny Sundén, TL Taylor, Barry Wellman, Deborah Wheeler, and Alexis Wichowski.
For more information about the book, please check the Amazon page at: <http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Internet-Studies-Handbooks-Communication/dp/ 1405185880/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299561410&sr=1-1-fkmr0>
We congratulate these scholars and researchers for what we find to be definitive contributions to internet studies as an emerging field. We also see the book as a distinctive and, we think, eloquent artifact of AoIR, as it documents and demonstrates the kinds of collaboration, critical dialogue, and collegial support fostered by AoIR as crucial conditions for the interdisciplinary and international work required for internet studies. We are very grateful indeed to our contributors and all who help make AoIR work in these ways for making this volume possible.
Enjoy!
- charles and Mia
charles ess Institut for Informations- og Medievidenskab Helsingforsgade 14 8200 Århus N. Denmark mail: <imvce@hum.au.dk> tel: (+45) 8942 9250
Professor, Philosophy and Religion Drury University, Springfield, Missouri 65802 USA
Exemplary persons seek harmony, not sameness. -- Analects 13.23
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
------------------------------- Nathaniel Poor, Ph.D. http://natpoor.blogspot.com/
Hi Nat, yeah, unhappy that - also happened with our AoIR friends and colleagues Lisbeth Klastrup, Jeremy Hunsinger, and Matthew Allen, whose _International Handbook of Internet Research_ now lists at $260.00 on Amazon, with a discount down to 213.20. Clearly, very few researchers, much less students will buy either of these in the hardcover. So far as I can tell, Wiley-Blackwell, Springer, and others are following what seems to be a standard practice of trying to get maximum return on a first hardcover printing that mostly libraries will buy up; they will then make available a softcover edition at a lower price. (Interestingly, Peter Lang - including the Digital Formation series edited by Steve Jones - seems to be following a different practice, at least with regard to another book forthcoming, _ Trust and Virtual Worlds: Contemporary Perspectives_, co-edited with May Thorseth, priced at $34.95 for the paperback. Perhaps Steve will have some helpful light to shed on these matters as well?) I would be the first to point out that "standard practice" does not of itself equal "right" or "justified". Rather, along with more or less every other scholarly organization, we've debated the publishers vs. open source approaches for years, along with the theoretical and practical matters of print-based notions of copyright in a digital age, etc. FWIW, I think both have important roles and places, along with serious deficits and problems. A good friend and colleague, in particular, is consistently reminding me of how prices like these keep important, perhaps essential scholarship out of the libraries and hands of colleagues and students in developing countries, something I'm certainly unhappy about. At the same time, of course, there are also, um, enterprising workarounds, some more legal than others (imagine my pleasure at discovering that one of my books has been made freely available as a bitTorrent download ... smile). Perhaps AoIR and AoIRists can come up with better solutions to the current conundrums? I'd be happy to see that, of course. In the meantime, I also hope that these critical concerns won't diminish our sense of shared pleasure in the scholarly accomplishments and contributions made by the contributors to the volume. cheers, - charles Institut for Informations- og Medievidenskab Helsingforsgade 14 8200 Århus N. Denmark mail: <imvce@hum.au.dk> tel: (+45) 8942 9250 Professor, Philosophy and Religion Drury University, Springfield, Missouri 65802 USA Exemplary persons seek harmony, not sameness. -- Analects 13.23 On 3/8/11 9:40 PM, "Nathaniel Poor" <natpoor@gmail.com> wrote:
Charles-
The Amazon link you sent lists the book at $US 200 (well ok $199.95 and then a discount, but $200).
Is that accurate?
I know that's the hardcover, but if that's the price how is anyone going to buy it?
Even the Kindle edition is $150.
Hi - Want to add my two bits here - that for people like myself, who are not university affiliated, prices like these just keep the books out of our ken altogether. The same goes for conference fees (unless they're waived, which is a rarity), etc. The two tiered system is in place, here and now, and a lot of us are tired of back-peddling to get the latest findings in research, JSTOR, etc. This creates an academic enclave that parallels those described by Davis re: homeowners associations, etc. You pay your dues, literally, or remain ignorant and end up always - always - watching the dialog occur elsewhere. Personally, I'm disgusted by these prices; I wish there were waivers for those of us in the pale, below the poverty line, whatever. A 'Handbook' is supposed to be useful, almost in the sense of fieldwork - but whose field- work? - Alan On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Charles Ess wrote:
Hi Nat, yeah, unhappy that - also happened with our AoIR friends and colleagues Lisbeth Klastrup, Jeremy Hunsinger, and Matthew Allen, whose _International Handbook of Internet Research_ now lists at $260.00 on Amazon, with a discount down to 213.20. Clearly, very few researchers, much less students will buy either of these in the hardcover. So far as I can tell, Wiley-Blackwell, Springer, and others are following what seems to be a standard practice of trying to get maximum return on a first hardcover printing that mostly libraries will buy up; they will then make available a softcover edition at a lower price.
(Interestingly, Peter Lang - including the Digital Formation series edited by Steve Jones - seems to be following a different practice, at least with regard to another book forthcoming, _ Trust and Virtual Worlds: Contemporary Perspectives_, co-edited with May Thorseth, priced at $34.95 for the paperback. Perhaps Steve will have some helpful light to shed on these matters as well?)
I would be the first to point out that "standard practice" does not of itself equal "right" or "justified". Rather, along with more or less every other scholarly organization, we've debated the publishers vs. open source approaches for years, along with the theoretical and practical matters of print-based notions of copyright in a digital age, etc. FWIW, I think both have important roles and places, along with serious deficits and problems. A good friend and colleague, in particular, is consistently reminding me of how prices like these keep important, perhaps essential scholarship out of the libraries and hands of colleagues and students in developing countries, something I'm certainly unhappy about. At the same time, of course, there are also, um, enterprising workarounds, some more legal than others (imagine my pleasure at discovering that one of my books has been made freely available as a bitTorrent download ... smile).
Perhaps AoIR and AoIRists can come up with better solutions to the current conundrums? I'd be happy to see that, of course. In the meantime, I also hope that these critical concerns won't diminish our sense of shared pleasure in the scholarly accomplishments and contributions made by the contributors to the volume.
cheers, - charles Institut for Informations- og Medievidenskab Helsingforsgade 14 8200 ?rhus N. Denmark mail: <imvce@hum.au.dk> tel: (+45) 8942 9250
Professor, Philosophy and Religion Drury University, Springfield, Missouri 65802 USA
Exemplary persons seek harmony, not sameness. -- Analects 13.23
On 3/8/11 9:40 PM, "Nathaniel Poor" <natpoor@gmail.com> wrote:
Charles-
The Amazon link you sent lists the book at $US 200 (well ok $199.95 and then a discount, but $200).
Is that accurate?
I know that's the hardcover, but if that's the price how is anyone going to buy it?
Even the Kindle edition is $150.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
== email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ current text http://www.alansondheim.org/qx.txt ==
well said and to the point - exactly. That said: what is to prevent anyone from contacting an author whose name s/he notices in a table of contents and asking for a copy of a given chapter or article? Without speaking for anyone else - this is a practice I engage in, as both requester and sender. It is also true in my experience that most authors are (generally) happy to respond positively to such requests, most especially under the sorts of circumstances you describe. Obviously, we want our work to be read and critically evaluated - not sequestered. An advantage of this practice, in my experience, is that it sometimes fosters helpful dialogue and creative collaboration between scholars who otherwise will not likely meet. Not an ideal solution, perhaps, but perhaps not also such a bad one? My two bits - and please keep throwing in yours! - charles On 3/9/11 8:30 AM, "Alan Sondheim" <sondheim@panix.com> wrote:
Hi -
Want to add my two bits here - that for people like myself, who are not university affiliated, prices like these just keep the books out of our ken altogether. The same goes for conference fees (unless they're waived, which is a rarity), etc. The two tiered system is in place, here and now, and a lot of us are tired of back-peddling to get the latest findings in research, JSTOR, etc. This creates an academic enclave that parallels those described by Davis re: homeowners associations, etc. You pay your dues, literally, or remain ignorant and end up always - always - watching the dialog occur elsewhere.
Personally, I'm disgusted by these prices; I wish there were waivers for those of us in the pale, below the poverty line, whatever. A 'Handbook' is supposed to be useful, almost in the sense of fieldwork - but whose field- work?
This sounds excellent, as far as it goes, of course; the problem arises if one tries to get the entire book. There are a lot of open source academic publications online; I'm surprised that Wiley et. al. charges so much, given this. POD is not all that expensive, by the way, as Lulu and other venues show. Thanks, Alan On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Charles Ess wrote:
well said and to the point - exactly. That said: what is to prevent anyone from contacting an author whose name s/he notices in a table of contents and asking for a copy of a given chapter or article? Without speaking for anyone else - this is a practice I engage in, as both requester and sender. It is also true in my experience that most authors are (generally) happy to respond positively to such requests, most especially under the sorts of circumstances you describe. Obviously, we want our work to be read and critically evaluated - not sequestered. An advantage of this practice, in my experience, is that it sometimes fosters helpful dialogue and creative collaboration between scholars who otherwise will not likely meet. Not an ideal solution, perhaps, but perhaps not also such a bad one?
My two bits - and please keep throwing in yours! - charles
[...]
FWIW, having worked for John Wiley as a Manager of Trade & Professional Books for several years, I'm not the slightest bit surprised by their pricing. Even if it's about the last book publisher still owned by its original founding family rather than a media conglomerate, their only commitment to scholarship is to make money from it.......Alex Alex Kuskis, PhD Adjunct Professor MA Program in Communication & Leadership School of Professional Studies Gonzaga University http://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/about/ -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 8:21 AM To: Charles Ess Cc: Air list Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement This sounds excellent, as far as it goes, of course; the problem arises if one tries to get the entire book. There are a lot of open source academic publications online; I'm surprised that Wiley et. al. charges so much, given this. POD is not all that expensive, by the way, as Lulu and other venues show. Thanks, Alan On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Charles Ess wrote:
well said and to the point - exactly. That said: what is to prevent anyone from contacting an author whose name s/he notices in a table of contents and asking for a copy of a given chapter or article? Without speaking for anyone else - this is a practice I engage in, as both requester and sender. It is also true in my experience that most authors are (generally) happy to respond positively to such requests, most especially under the sorts of circumstances you describe. Obviously, we want our work to be read and critically evaluated - not sequestered. An advantage of this practice, in my experience, is that it sometimes fosters helpful dialogue and creative collaboration between scholars who otherwise will not likely meet. Not an ideal solution, perhaps, but perhaps not also such a bad one?
My two bits - and please keep throwing in yours! - charles
[...] _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Since the Internet and ICTs overall reduce the cost of information/text reproduction, storage and distribution to very close to zero and the content/reviewing/editing is almost all done by volunteer labour, I'm wondering what the value added is of "academic publishers/publishing"... whether for "Handbooks" or journals or...? M -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alex Kuskis Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 11:02 AM To: 'Alan Sondheim'; 'Charles Ess' Cc: 'Air list' Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement FWIW, having worked for John Wiley as a Manager of Trade & Professional Books for several years, I'm not the slightest bit surprised by their pricing. Even if it's about the last book publisher still owned by its original founding family rather than a media conglomerate, their only commitment to scholarship is to make money from it.......Alex Alex Kuskis, PhD Adjunct Professor MA Program in Communication & Leadership School of Professional Studies Gonzaga University http://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/about/ -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 8:21 AM To: Charles Ess Cc: Air list Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement This sounds excellent, as far as it goes, of course; the problem arises if one tries to get the entire book. There are a lot of open source academic publications online; I'm surprised that Wiley et. al. charges so much, given this. POD is not all that expensive, by the way, as Lulu and other venues show. Thanks, Alan On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Charles Ess wrote:
well said and to the point - exactly. That said: what is to prevent anyone from contacting an author whose name s/he notices in a table of contents and asking for a copy of a given chapter or article? Without speaking for anyone else - this is a practice I engage in, as both requester and sender. It is also true in my experience that most authors are (generally) happy to respond positively to such requests, most especially under the sorts of circumstances you describe. Obviously, we want our work to be read and critically evaluated - not sequestered. An advantage of this practice, in my experience, is that it sometimes fosters helpful dialogue and creative collaboration between scholars who otherwise will not likely meet. Not an ideal solution, perhaps, but perhaps not also such a bad one?
My two bits - and please keep throwing in yours! - charles
[...] _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/ _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Some - not all - publishers do provide, among other things, copyediting, layout and design, marketing, publicity, and in some cases (particularly journals, but sometimes also handbooks and reference books) funds that allow us to support students. It would be interesting to know whether academic libraries are keen on purchasing e-books. Does anyone have any insight or data? They're certainly comfortable purchasing licenses to electronic versions of journals, but how about books? Thanks, Steve On Mar 9, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Michael Gurstein wrote:
Since the Internet and ICTs overall reduce the cost of information/text reproduction, storage and distribution to very close to zero and the content/reviewing/editing is almost all done by volunteer labour, I'm wondering what the value added is of "academic publishers/publishing"... whether for "Handbooks" or journals or...?
M
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alex Kuskis Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 11:02 AM To: 'Alan Sondheim'; 'Charles Ess' Cc: 'Air list' Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement
FWIW, having worked for John Wiley as a Manager of Trade & Professional Books for several years, I'm not the slightest bit surprised by their pricing. Even if it's about the last book publisher still owned by its original founding family rather than a media conglomerate, their only commitment to scholarship is to make money from it.......Alex
Alex Kuskis, PhD Adjunct Professor MA Program in Communication & Leadership School of Professional Studies Gonzaga University http://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/about/
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 8:21 AM To: Charles Ess Cc: Air list Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement
This sounds excellent, as far as it goes, of course; the problem arises if one tries to get the entire book. There are a lot of open source academic publications online; I'm surprised that Wiley et. al. charges so much, given this. POD is not all that expensive, by the way, as Lulu and other venues show.
Thanks, Alan
On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Charles Ess wrote:
well said and to the point - exactly. That said: what is to prevent anyone from contacting an author whose name s/he notices in a table of contents and asking for a copy of a given chapter or article? Without speaking for anyone else - this is a practice I engage in, as both requester and sender. It is also true in my experience that most authors are (generally) happy to respond positively to such requests, most especially under the sorts of circumstances you describe. Obviously, we want our work to be read and critically evaluated - not sequestered. An advantage of this practice, in my experience, is that it sometimes fosters helpful dialogue and creative collaboration between scholars who otherwise will not likely meet. Not an ideal solution, perhaps, but perhaps not also such a bad one?
My two bits - and please keep throwing in yours! - charles
[...] _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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There are some interesting models in this area. One that has gotten a bit of buzz lately is "patron driven acquisition." Ebrary is doing this for example: http://www.ebrary.com/corp/librariesPatron.jsp;jsessionid=DAIILCDPMHDA . (I believe our library is trialing that now.) Some publishers also allow private ebook rental: http://umichpress.typepad.com/university_of_michigan_pr/2010/08/um-press-lau... I personally am leaning toward--as a acquisitions editor who shall remain nameless called it--the "Radiohead model" for my next book: $0.99 seems like a perfectly reasonable amount to charge. Now it's just a matter of finding time to write the darned thing. Best, Alex On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Steve Jones <sjones@uic.edu> wrote:
Some - not all - publishers do provide, among other things, copyediting, layout and design, marketing, publicity, and in some cases (particularly journals, but sometimes also handbooks and reference books) funds that allow us to support students.
It would be interesting to know whether academic libraries are keen on purchasing e-books. Does anyone have any insight or data? They're certainly comfortable purchasing licenses to electronic versions of journals, but how about books?
Thanks,
Steve
On Mar 9, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Michael Gurstein wrote:
-- // // This email is // [x] assumed public and may be blogged / forwarded. // [ ] assumed to be private, please ask before redistributing. // // Alexander C. Halavais, ciberflâneur // http://alex.halavais.net //
This may be minor, but my partner has a Nook and can rent e-books from the New York Public Library; apparently this is spreading in a number of places. So the traditional library is becoming, not only partly digital, but also democratized - you can be housebound and still receive your books, for example. - Alan On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Steve Jones wrote:
Some - not all - publishers do provide, among other things, copyediting, layout and design, marketing, publicity, and in some cases (particularly journals, but sometimes also handbooks and reference books) funds that allow us to support students.
It would be interesting to know whether academic libraries are keen on purchasing e-books. Does anyone have any insight or data? They're certainly comfortable purchasing licenses to electronic versions of journals, but how about books?
Thanks,
Steve
On Mar 9, 2011, at 8:17 AM, Michael Gurstein wrote:
Since the Internet and ICTs overall reduce the cost of information/text reproduction, storage and distribution to very close to zero and the content/reviewing/editing is almost all done by volunteer labour, I'm wondering what the value added is of "academic publishers/publishing"... whether for "Handbooks" or journals or...?
M
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alex Kuskis Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 11:02 AM To: 'Alan Sondheim'; 'Charles Ess' Cc: 'Air list' Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement
FWIW, having worked for John Wiley as a Manager of Trade & Professional Books for several years, I'm not the slightest bit surprised by their pricing. Even if it's about the last book publisher still owned by its original founding family rather than a media conglomerate, their only commitment to scholarship is to make money from it.......Alex
Alex Kuskis, PhD Adjunct Professor MA Program in Communication & Leadership School of Professional Studies Gonzaga University http://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/about/
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 8:21 AM To: Charles Ess Cc: Air list Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement
This sounds excellent, as far as it goes, of course; the problem arises if one tries to get the entire book. There are a lot of open source academic publications online; I'm surprised that Wiley et. al. charges so much, given this. POD is not all that expensive, by the way, as Lulu and other venues show.
Thanks, Alan
On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Charles Ess wrote:
well said and to the point - exactly. That said: what is to prevent anyone from contacting an author whose name s/he notices in a table of contents and asking for a copy of a given chapter or article? Without speaking for anyone else - this is a practice I engage in, as both requester and sender. It is also true in my experience that most authors are (generally) happy to respond positively to such requests, most especially under the sorts of circumstances you describe. Obviously, we want our work to be read and critically evaluated - not sequestered. An advantage of this practice, in my experience, is that it sometimes fosters helpful dialogue and creative collaboration between scholars who otherwise will not likely meet. Not an ideal solution, perhaps, but perhaps not also such a bad one?
My two bits - and please keep throwing in yours! - charles
[...] _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
== email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ current text http://www.alansondheim.org/qx.txt ==
One other issue is that access to (digital) databases is limited to people directly associated with Universities. As soon as I graduated from Utrecht University I lost access to both the University library and their online databases. My aim to combine my practise as a visual artist with a more theoretical approach to new media was thus hard to realise. After a few lectures on several art schools, and one published article, I simply had to give up. Whereas Art Studies in the USA are part of University studies, in the Netherlands they are taught at separated (lower level) Art Academies. Thus there is little dialogue between both fields. It would be great if - for a small fee maybe - graduated University students would still have access to the digital databases. This would be one little step to break open the academic enclave. I agree with Alan Sondheim that it is utterly frustrating to have to watch the dialog occur elsewhere, and not be able to do one's bit. Best, Tjarda
Hi -
Want to add my two bits here - that for people like myself, who are not university affiliated, prices like these just keep the books out of our ken altogether. The same goes for conference fees (unless they're waived, which is a rarity), etc. The two tiered system is in place, here and now, and a lot of us are tired of back-peddling to get the latest findings in research, JSTOR, etc. This creates an academic enclave that parallels those described by Davis re: homeowners associations, etc. You pay your dues, literally, or remain ignorant and end up always - always - watching the dialog occur elsewhere.
Personally, I'm disgusted by these prices; I wish there were waivers for those of us in the pale, below the poverty line, whatever. A 'Handbook' is supposed to be useful, almost in the sense of fieldwork - but whose field- work?
- Alan
Dear Sylvie, Alan and AoIR, In response to this 'Book' thread, here's the WUaS Library Resources' wiki subject page at World University and School (WUaS) - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Library_Resources. WUaS is like Wikipedia with MIT OCW. WUaS plans to facilitate linking all online libraries, especially academic ones, with significant web content (eventually in ALL languages). This may eventually articulate, for example, with the Digital Public Library of America (http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/newsroom/digital_public_library) project, which friends at Harvard and elsewhere are focusing on developing. This doesn't provide access to copyrighted books at present, but the future of this is unclear. With skillful planning, collaboration, and all of us working together, an online, free, university library will emerge here, in the aggregate. World University and School focuses on great universities' open course ware for its academic content, listed here: http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Courses#University_course_listings, for example. And the WUaS Subjects' page facilitates open, people-to-people teaching and learning, for example, here - http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/Subjects - all the while developing an academic standard based on MIT OCW, Berkeley Webcast, Yale OYC, etc., eventually for free online degrees. See the FREE Harvard doctoral degree in education on the WUaS Courses' page, for example. World University and School as wiki hopes to open up university discourse, for all. Here's a Facebook group if you're interested in more information - http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=48753608141 - and wish to collaborate. Best, Scott Scott MacLeod World University and School http://worlduniversity.wikia.com/wiki/World_University http://scottmacleod.com On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Tjarda Sixma <sixma.vijselaar@planet.nl> wrote:
One other issue is that access to (digital) databases is limited to people directly associated with Universities.
As soon as I graduated from Utrecht University I lost access to both the University library and their online databases. My aim to combine my practise as a visual artist with a more theoretical approach to new media was thus hard to realise. After a few lectures on several art schools, and one published article, I simply had to give up.
Whereas Art Studies in the USA are part of University studies, in the Netherlands they are taught at separated (lower level) Art Academies. Thus there is little dialogue between both fields.
It would be great if - for a small fee maybe - graduated University students would still have access to the digital databases. This would be one little step to break open the academic enclave.
I agree with Alan Sondheim that it is utterly frustrating to have to watch the dialog occur elsewhere, and not be able to do one's bit.
Best, Tjarda
Hi -
Want to add my two bits here - that for people like myself, who are not university affiliated, prices like these just keep the books out of our ken altogether. The same goes for conference fees (unless they're waived, which is a rarity), etc. The two tiered system is in place, here and now, and a lot of us are tired of back-peddling to get the latest findings in research, JSTOR, etc. This creates an academic enclave that parallels those described by Davis re: homeowners associations, etc. You pay your dues, literally, or remain ignorant and end up always - always - watching the dialog occur elsewhere.
Personally, I'm disgusted by these prices; I wish there were waivers for those of us in the pale, below the poverty line, whatever. A 'Handbook' is supposed to be useful, almost in the sense of fieldwork - but whose field- work?
- Alan
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My two cents worth or deux cent ( 200) I guess part of being successful as an undergrad is being resourceful vis a vie books. I still bought every course book expect professor prepared essay collections when I was an undergrad. The essay collections I researched and found in the library. What's wrong with using a university library as our universities here allow the general public some borrowing rights? Two books that Barry Wellman posted titles of I found at the local U libraries. Of course, this doesnt solve the developing world access and may be the developing world should pay attention less to the developed world's research agenda. And here the general public has a hard time getting online journal access from the U libraries. One of my professors has this site on her web page http://www.addall.com for buying text books which will search for the cheapest price including shipping. This may put the university book stores out of business eh? Going on the basis of one large multi volume set on Research Ethics I borrowed a volume of from school, I would say the size was off putting. May be I can not cope with large books unless they are photo coffee table books. Volume of this size in my use are used for one chapter or less, or as a reference like some Oxford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy where I read the entry on computer ethics and put the book back on the reference shelf. I don't buy these reference books generally for personal use. I also have seen professors buying on amazon and they explain to me that they spend their grant money buying books. So yes being in a position of money is different. Now the Cambridge Handbook of Information and Computer Ethics ed Luciano Floridi, I am borrowing and reading slowly and it is not a big book and Charles Ess is coauthor of a chapter I have read already. The cost is about 36.87$ CND for paperback on Amazon.ca. This is typical for a social sciences book (IMHE) but up about 10$ from 25 years ago I would guess. I like this book. In my math courses the books, and these are textbooks students are expected to buy in each course, run in the 80$ to 160$ range. Law books run at 25$ to 45$ for criminal codes and then 60$ or so for case analysis or annotated criminal code books in basic undergrad courses. I think in advanced law you would be paying more. Anyways thanks for reading and I hope this helps the discussion. I am going back this morning to learning Gplot in SAS for my nine to five job from the huge collection of published online for free SAS conference proceedings. Although the cheapest SAS publishing book in Kindle Edition is about 38$. Peter Timusk at571@ncf.ca ptimusk@sympatico.ca web: www.crystalcomputing.net blogs www.cyborgcitizen.org -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Charles Ess Sent: March-09-11 1:58 AM To: Nathaniel Poor Cc: Air list Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement Hi Nat, yeah, unhappy that - also happened with our AoIR friends and colleagues Lisbeth Klastrup, Jeremy Hunsinger, and Matthew Allen, whose _International Handbook of Internet Research_ now lists at $260.00 on Amazon, with a discount down to 213.20. Clearly, very few researchers, much less students will buy either of these in the hardcover. So far as I can tell, Wiley-Blackwell, Springer, and others are following what seems to be a standard practice of trying to get maximum return on a first hardcover printing that mostly libraries will buy up; they will then make available a softcover edition at a lower price. (Interestingly, Peter Lang - including the Digital Formation series edited by Steve Jones - seems to be following a different practice, at least with regard to another book forthcoming, _ Trust and Virtual Worlds: Contemporary Perspectives_, co-edited with May Thorseth, priced at $34.95 for the paperback. Perhaps Steve will have some helpful light to shed on these matters as well?) I would be the first to point out that "standard practice" does not of itself equal "right" or "justified". Rather, along with more or less every other scholarly organization, we've debated the publishers vs. open source approaches for years, along with the theoretical and practical matters of print-based notions of copyright in a digital age, etc. FWIW, I think both have important roles and places, along with serious deficits and problems. A good friend and colleague, in particular, is consistently reminding me of how prices like these keep important, perhaps essential scholarship out of the libraries and hands of colleagues and students in developing countries, something I'm certainly unhappy about. At the same time, of course, there are also, um, enterprising workarounds, some more legal than others (imagine my pleasure at discovering that one of my books has been made freely available as a bitTorrent download ... smile). Perhaps AoIR and AoIRists can come up with better solutions to the current conundrums? I'd be happy to see that, of course. In the meantime, I also hope that these critical concerns won't diminish our sense of shared pleasure in the scholarly accomplishments and contributions made by the contributors to the volume. cheers, - charles Institut for Informations- og Medievidenskab Helsingforsgade 14 8200 Århus N. Denmark mail: <imvce@hum.au.dk> tel: (+45) 8942 9250 Professor, Philosophy and Religion Drury University, Springfield, Missouri 65802 USA Exemplary persons seek harmony, not sameness. -- Analects 13.23 On 3/8/11 9:40 PM, "Nathaniel Poor" <natpoor@gmail.com> wrote:
Charles-
The Amazon link you sent lists the book at $US 200 (well ok $199.95 and then a discount, but $200).
Is that accurate?
I know that's the hardcover, but if that's the price how is anyone going to buy it?
Even the Kindle edition is $150.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
I'm not sure that university libraries are the solution for everyone. Apart from having to live in (or close to) a town or city that has a university, and having that university generous enough to let the general public borrow its books (not something that happens at every university, I'm betting), the book you're looking for would have to be one that hasn't been reserved for a class or categorized as a reference book. I was reading the other day about a young girl who self-publishes through Kindle and sells her books at 99 cents or three dollars each. Wouldn't it be interesting if we researchers and academics could follow a similar path? Sylvie Noel On 2011-03-09, at 4:28 AM, Peter Timusk wrote:
My two cents worth or deux cent ( 200)
I guess part of being successful as an undergrad is being resourceful vis a vie books. I still bought every course book expect professor prepared essay collections when I was an undergrad. The essay collections I researched and found in the library.
What's wrong with using a university library as our universities here allow the general public some borrowing rights? Two books that Barry Wellman posted titles of I found at the local U libraries. Of course, this doesn’t solve the developing world access and may be the developing world should pay attention less to the developed world's research agenda. And here the general public has a hard time getting online journal access from the U libraries.
One of my professors has this site on her web page http://www.addall.com for buying text books which will search for the cheapest price including shipping. This may put the university book stores out of business eh?
Going on the basis of one large multi volume set on Research Ethics I borrowed a volume of from school, I would say the size was off putting. May be I can not cope with large books unless they are photo coffee table books. Volume of this size in my use are used for one chapter or less, or as a reference like some Oxford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy where I read the entry on computer ethics and put the book back on the reference shelf. I don't buy these reference books generally for personal use. I also have seen professors buying on amazon and they explain to me that they spend their grant money buying books. So yes being in a position of money is different.
Now the Cambridge Handbook of Information and Computer Ethics ed Luciano Floridi, I am borrowing and reading slowly and it is not a big book and Charles Ess is coauthor of a chapter I have read already. The cost is about 36.87$ CND for paperback on Amazon.ca. This is typical for a social sciences book (IMHE) but up about 10$ from 25 years ago I would guess. I like this book.
In my math courses the books, and these are textbooks students are expected to buy in each course, run in the 80$ to 160$ range. Law books run at 25$ to 45$ for criminal codes and then 60$ or so for case analysis or annotated criminal code books in basic undergrad courses. I think in advanced law you would be paying more.
Anyways thanks for reading and I hope this helps the discussion. I am going back this morning to learning Gplot in SAS for my nine to five job from the huge collection of published online for free SAS conference proceedings. Although the cheapest SAS publishing book in Kindle Edition is about 38$.
Peter Timusk at571@ncf.ca ptimusk@sympatico.ca web: www.crystalcomputing.net blogs www.cyborgcitizen.org
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Charles Ess Sent: March-09-11 1:58 AM To: Nathaniel Poor Cc: Air list Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement
Hi Nat, yeah, unhappy that - also happened with our AoIR friends and colleagues Lisbeth Klastrup, Jeremy Hunsinger, and Matthew Allen, whose _International Handbook of Internet Research_ now lists at $260.00 on Amazon, with a discount down to 213.20. Clearly, very few researchers, much less students will buy either of these in the hardcover. So far as I can tell, Wiley-Blackwell, Springer, and others are following what seems to be a standard practice of trying to get maximum return on a first hardcover printing that mostly libraries will buy up; they will then make available a softcover edition at a lower price.
(Interestingly, Peter Lang - including the Digital Formation series edited by Steve Jones - seems to be following a different practice, at least with regard to another book forthcoming, _ Trust and Virtual Worlds: Contemporary Perspectives_, co-edited with May Thorseth, priced at $34.95 for the paperback. Perhaps Steve will have some helpful light to shed on these matters as well?)
I would be the first to point out that "standard practice" does not of itself equal "right" or "justified". Rather, along with more or less every other scholarly organization, we've debated the publishers vs. open source approaches for years, along with the theoretical and practical matters of print-based notions of copyright in a digital age, etc. FWIW, I think both have important roles and places, along with serious deficits and problems. A good friend and colleague, in particular, is consistently reminding me of how prices like these keep important, perhaps essential scholarship out of the libraries and hands of colleagues and students in developing countries, something I'm certainly unhappy about. At the same time, of course, there are also, um, enterprising workarounds, some more legal than others (imagine my pleasure at discovering that one of my books has been made freely available as a bitTorrent download ... smile).
Perhaps AoIR and AoIRists can come up with better solutions to the current conundrums? I'd be happy to see that, of course. In the meantime, I also hope that these critical concerns won't diminish our sense of shared pleasure in the scholarly accomplishments and contributions made by the contributors to the volume.
cheers, - charles Institut for Informations- og Medievidenskab Helsingforsgade 14 8200 Århus N. Denmark mail: <imvce@hum.au.dk> tel: (+45) 8942 9250
Professor, Philosophy and Religion Drury University, Springfield, Missouri 65802 USA
Exemplary persons seek harmony, not sameness. -- Analects 13.23
On 3/8/11 9:40 PM, "Nathaniel Poor" <natpoor@gmail.com> wrote:
Charles-
The Amazon link you sent lists the book at $US 200 (well ok $199.95 and then a discount, but $200).
Is that accurate?
I know that's the hardcover, but if that's the price how is anyone going to buy it?
Even the Kindle edition is $150.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Sylvie Noël, PhD Chercheure scientifique | Research scientist Centre de recherches sur les communications Canada | Communications Research Centre Canada 3701, avenue Carling | 3701, Carling Ave. Ottawa (ON) K2H 8S2 (613) 990-4675 | téléc./fa
Or even make papers available for free; some of the cosmologists I read (an area I'm interested in) make their work, even their technical work that's been peer-reviewed, available on their websites. And of course with things like ITunesU and the initiatives from MIT, Stanford, and a lot of other universities (including Pakistan), courses and lecture notes are often available gratis (you can download Leonard Susskind's physics/ cosmology courses for example). The problem with JSTOR and overly- expensive academic press books, is that the discourse and associated intellectual life, remains enclaved; for the life of me I don't understand why conferences don't have tiered payment systems, for example - and the problems are related. - Alan On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Sylvie Noel wrote:
I'm not sure that university libraries are the solution for everyone. Apart from having to live in (or close to) a town or city that has a university, and having that university generous enough to let the general public borrow its books (not something that happens at every university, I'm betting), the book you're looking for would have to be one that hasn't been reserved for a class or categorized as a reference book.
I was reading the other day about a young girl who self-publishes through Kindle and sells her books at 99 cents or three dollars each. Wouldn't it be interesting if we researchers and academics could follow a similar path?
Sylvie Noel
On 2011-03-09, at 4:28 AM, Peter Timusk wrote:
My two cents worth or deux cent ( 200)
I guess part of being successful as an undergrad is being resourceful vis a vie books. I still bought every course book expect professor prepared essay collections when I was an undergrad. The essay collections I researched and found in the library.
What's wrong with using a university library as our universities here allow the general public some borrowing rights? Two books that Barry Wellman posted titles of I found at the local U libraries. Of course, this doesn?t solve the developing world access and may be the developing world should pay attention less to the developed world's research agenda. And here the general public has a hard time getting online journal access from the U libraries.
One of my professors has this site on her web page http://www.addall.com for buying text books which will search for the cheapest price including shipping. This may put the university book stores out of business eh?
Going on the basis of one large multi volume set on Research Ethics I borrowed a volume of from school, I would say the size was off putting. May be I can not cope with large books unless they are photo coffee table books. Volume of this size in my use are used for one chapter or less, or as a reference like some Oxford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy where I read the entry on computer ethics and put the book back on the reference shelf. I don't buy these reference books generally for personal use. I also have seen professors buying on amazon and they explain to me that they spend their grant money buying books. So yes being in a position of money is different.
Now the Cambridge Handbook of Information and Computer Ethics ed Luciano Floridi, I am borrowing and reading slowly and it is not a big book and Charles Ess is coauthor of a chapter I have read already. The cost is about 36.87$ CND for paperback on Amazon.ca. This is typical for a social sciences book (IMHE) but up about 10$ from 25 years ago I would guess. I like this book.
In my math courses the books, and these are textbooks students are expected to buy in each course, run in the 80$ to 160$ range. Law books run at 25$ to 45$ for criminal codes and then 60$ or so for case analysis or annotated criminal code books in basic undergrad courses. I think in advanced law you would be paying more.
Anyways thanks for reading and I hope this helps the discussion. I am going back this morning to learning Gplot in SAS for my nine to five job from the huge collection of published online for free SAS conference proceedings. Although the cheapest SAS publishing book in Kindle Edition is about 38$.
Peter Timusk at571@ncf.ca ptimusk@sympatico.ca web: www.crystalcomputing.net blogs www.cyborgcitizen.org
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Charles Ess Sent: March-09-11 1:58 AM To: Nathaniel Poor Cc: Air list Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement
Hi Nat, yeah, unhappy that - also happened with our AoIR friends and colleagues Lisbeth Klastrup, Jeremy Hunsinger, and Matthew Allen, whose _International Handbook of Internet Research_ now lists at $260.00 on Amazon, with a discount down to 213.20. Clearly, very few researchers, much less students will buy either of these in the hardcover. So far as I can tell, Wiley-Blackwell, Springer, and others are following what seems to be a standard practice of trying to get maximum return on a first hardcover printing that mostly libraries will buy up; they will then make available a softcover edition at a lower price.
(Interestingly, Peter Lang - including the Digital Formation series edited by Steve Jones - seems to be following a different practice, at least with regard to another book forthcoming, _ Trust and Virtual Worlds: Contemporary Perspectives_, co-edited with May Thorseth, priced at $34.95 for the paperback. Perhaps Steve will have some helpful light to shed on these matters as well?)
I would be the first to point out that "standard practice" does not of itself equal "right" or "justified". Rather, along with more or less every other scholarly organization, we've debated the publishers vs. open source approaches for years, along with the theoretical and practical matters of print-based notions of copyright in a digital age, etc. FWIW, I think both have important roles and places, along with serious deficits and problems. A good friend and colleague, in particular, is consistently reminding me of how prices like these keep important, perhaps essential scholarship out of the libraries and hands of colleagues and students in developing countries, something I'm certainly unhappy about. At the same time, of course, there are also, um, enterprising workarounds, some more legal than others (imagine my pleasure at discovering that one of my books has been made freely available as a bitTorrent download ... smile).
Perhaps AoIR and AoIRists can come up with better solutions to the current conundrums? I'd be happy to see that, of course. In the meantime, I also hope that these critical concerns won't diminish our sense of shared pleasure in the scholarly accomplishments and contributions made by the contributors to the volume.
cheers, - charles Institut for Informations- og Medievidenskab Helsingforsgade 14 8200 ?rhus N. Denmark mail: <imvce@hum.au.dk> tel: (+45) 8942 9250
Professor, Philosophy and Religion Drury University, Springfield, Missouri 65802 USA
Exemplary persons seek harmony, not sameness. -- Analects 13.23
On 3/8/11 9:40 PM, "Nathaniel Poor" <natpoor@gmail.com> wrote:
Charles-
The Amazon link you sent lists the book at $US 200 (well ok $199.95 and then a discount, but $200).
Is that accurate?
I know that's the hardcover, but if that's the price how is anyone going to buy it?
Even the Kindle edition is $150.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Sylvie No?l, PhD Chercheure scientifique | Research scientist Centre de recherches sur les communications Canada | Communications Research Centre Canada 3701, avenue Carling | 3701, Carling Ave. Ottawa (ON) K2H 8S2
(613) 990-4675 | t?l?c./fa
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
== email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ current text http://www.alansondheim.org/qx.txt ==
Just want to note that the university libraries here, that I'm familiar with, are not open to public borrowing and most aren't open to public browsing either. - Alan On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Peter Timusk wrote:
My two cents worth or deux cent ( 200)
I guess part of being successful as an undergrad is being resourceful vis a vie books. I still bought every course book expect professor prepared essay collections when I was an undergrad. The essay collections I researched and found in the library.
What's wrong with using a university library as our universities here allow the general public some borrowing rights? Two books that Barry Wellman posted titles of I found at the local U libraries. Of course, this doesn?t solve the developing world access and may be the developing world should pay attention less to the developed world's research agenda. And here the general public has a hard time getting online journal access from the U libraries.
One of my professors has this site on her web page http://www.addall.com for buying text books which will search for the cheapest price including shipping. This may put the university book stores out of business eh?
Going on the basis of one large multi volume set on Research Ethics I borrowed a volume of from school, I would say the size was off putting. May be I can not cope with large books unless they are photo coffee table books. Volume of this size in my use are used for one chapter or less, or as a reference like some Oxford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy where I read the entry on computer ethics and put the book back on the reference shelf. I don't buy these reference books generally for personal use. I also have seen professors buying on amazon and they explain to me that they spend their grant money buying books. So yes being in a position of money is different.
Now the Cambridge Handbook of Information and Computer Ethics ed Luciano Floridi, I am borrowing and reading slowly and it is not a big book and Charles Ess is coauthor of a chapter I have read already. The cost is about 36.87$ CND for paperback on Amazon.ca. This is typical for a social sciences book (IMHE) but up about 10$ from 25 years ago I would guess. I like this book.
In my math courses the books, and these are textbooks students are expected to buy in each course, run in the 80$ to 160$ range. Law books run at 25$ to 45$ for criminal codes and then 60$ or so for case analysis or annotated criminal code books in basic undergrad courses. I think in advanced law you would be paying more.
Anyways thanks for reading and I hope this helps the discussion. I am going back this morning to learning Gplot in SAS for my nine to five job from the huge collection of published online for free SAS conference proceedings. Although the cheapest SAS publishing book in Kindle Edition is about 38$.
Peter Timusk at571@ncf.ca ptimusk@sympatico.ca web: www.crystalcomputing.net blogs www.cyborgcitizen.org
-----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Charles Ess Sent: March-09-11 1:58 AM To: Nathaniel Poor Cc: Air list Subject: Re: [Air-L] book announcement
Hi Nat, yeah, unhappy that - also happened with our AoIR friends and colleagues Lisbeth Klastrup, Jeremy Hunsinger, and Matthew Allen, whose _International Handbook of Internet Research_ now lists at $260.00 on Amazon, with a discount down to 213.20. Clearly, very few researchers, much less students will buy either of these in the hardcover. So far as I can tell, Wiley-Blackwell, Springer, and others are following what seems to be a standard practice of trying to get maximum return on a first hardcover printing that mostly libraries will buy up; they will then make available a softcover edition at a lower price.
(Interestingly, Peter Lang - including the Digital Formation series edited by Steve Jones - seems to be following a different practice, at least with regard to another book forthcoming, _ Trust and Virtual Worlds: Contemporary Perspectives_, co-edited with May Thorseth, priced at $34.95 for the paperback. Perhaps Steve will have some helpful light to shed on these matters as well?)
I would be the first to point out that "standard practice" does not of itself equal "right" or "justified". Rather, along with more or less every other scholarly organization, we've debated the publishers vs. open source approaches for years, along with the theoretical and practical matters of print-based notions of copyright in a digital age, etc. FWIW, I think both have important roles and places, along with serious deficits and problems. A good friend and colleague, in particular, is consistently reminding me of how prices like these keep important, perhaps essential scholarship out of the libraries and hands of colleagues and students in developing countries, something I'm certainly unhappy about. At the same time, of course, there are also, um, enterprising workarounds, some more legal than others (imagine my pleasure at discovering that one of my books has been made freely available as a bitTorrent download ... smile).
Perhaps AoIR and AoIRists can come up with better solutions to the current conundrums? I'd be happy to see that, of course. In the meantime, I also hope that these critical concerns won't diminish our sense of shared pleasure in the scholarly accomplishments and contributions made by the contributors to the volume.
cheers, - charles Institut for Informations- og Medievidenskab Helsingforsgade 14 8200 ?rhus N. Denmark mail: <imvce@hum.au.dk> tel: (+45) 8942 9250
Professor, Philosophy and Religion Drury University, Springfield, Missouri 65802 USA
Exemplary persons seek harmony, not sameness. -- Analects 13.23
On 3/8/11 9:40 PM, "Nathaniel Poor" <natpoor@gmail.com> wrote:
Charles-
The Amazon link you sent lists the book at $US 200 (well ok $199.95 and then a discount, but $200).
Is that accurate?
I know that's the hardcover, but if that's the price how is anyone going to buy it?
Even the Kindle edition is $150.
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
== email archive: http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ webpage http://www.alansondheim.org music archive: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ current text http://www.alansondheim.org/qx.txt ==
Actually you just have to look on the webpages, most public university libraries are open to public borrowing. They might not give you the same exact privs. but then there are public libraries also, and public libraries frequently also participate in inter-library loan programs and can get copies of articles or books for reasonable fees to the user.
well for our book, which is more expensive, I'm not that uncomfortable with the price, as really the book is not conceived as an individual purchase. It is an institutional purchase. It is part of a larger package of hundreds of handbooks that Springer licenses to universities and other institutions. as such, it actually isn't in their interest to sell tens of thousands of this sort of book, because that would devalue the digital licensing of the book, which is where they'll make their money in the long run. I'd clearly say that our handbook was not a handbook that would be anything other than a reference book for the long term. It was imagined as a book where you'd go the library, or order it through inter-library loan, photocopy or scan the chapters you want, and use them individually. indeed the chapters are even individually purchasable... at even more exorbitant rates. But, as I said before, I'd rather your university library buy a copy then you buy a copy. basically, books have three sort of markets in academia I think. personal purchase books, which are books you'd purchase for your own library. generally they are under $50.00, usually under $30, and the best sellers are usually under $20, best selling books in academia are those that sell around 2000 copies, more than 2000 and you are amazing. class and teaching purpose books, these are the books designed to be the core or periphery of classes. they cost rarely less than 50 and rarely more than 200. these are textbook type books. they are bought by students primarily and are a huge profit center for presses. library books, which are usually reference books are books that range from around 100 to around 20000 dollars and are meant to be bought by libraries for the use of many people over the long term. Jeremy Hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture Virginia Tech Live without dead time. -graffitti Paris 1968
Since I was mentioned in Charles' email that started this thread.... I think Jeremy sums it up pretty well. I can't speak to Lang's business model, I haven't a clue about it. What I do know is that the books in Digital Formations aren't intended nor marketed to be "handbooks" or "reference books." In general those are perceived as very different from other types of books, textbooks and monographs. They usually have smaller press runs, more pages, are targeted at libraries (and other institutional buyers) and not individual buyers. Some presses publish only reference books, others publish a mix of those and other books. The business model relies on high prices to presumably at least break even with relatively few unit sales. Sylvie Noel brought up in a subsequent email that there are people who publish e-books at very low cost (and, I would add, there are probably others who provide their work for free). There are alternatives such as these and others, and I have always encouraged AoIR to consider alternatives in general, so perhaps this is something to think about and to do. However, I would (always) add that it is not something we should look to AoIR to instigate, it is something that should come from members and those on air-l, who, if they are interested in pursuing alternatives, should pursue them and seek the support of AoIR (whatever form that support might take). Similarly, I would very much like to encourage people to consider danah's recommendation in an email not part of the 'book announcement' thread of Ignite talks (and other forms of presentation) at the next AoIR. They need not even be within the structure of the program, but could take place at other points in time during the conference. Part (perhaps a big part) of what one faces when proposing and engaging in alternatives to traditional scholarly modes of presentation is the seeming recalcitrance of the academy, but in my experience it can't hurt to try, and it just might help a lot. Thanks, Steve On Mar 9, 2011, at 4:45 AM, jeremy hunsinger wrote:
well for our book, which is more expensive, I'm not that uncomfortable with the price, as really the book is not conceived as an individual purchase. It is an institutional purchase. It is part of a larger package of hundreds of handbooks that Springer licenses to universities and other institutions. as such, it actually isn't in their interest to sell tens of thousands of this sort of book, because that would devalue the digital licensing of the book, which is where they'll make their money in the long run. I'd clearly say that our handbook was not a handbook that would be anything other than a reference book for the long term. It was imagined as a book where you'd go the library, or order it through inter-library loan, photocopy or scan the chapters you want, and use them individually. indeed the chapters are even individually purchasable... at even more exorbitant rates. But, as I said before, I'd rather your university library buy a copy then you buy a copy.
basically, books have three sort of markets in academia I think.
personal purchase books, which are books you'd purchase for your own library. generally they are under $50.00, usually under $30, and the best sellers are usually under $20, best selling books in academia are those that sell around 2000 copies, more than 2000 and you are amazing.
class and teaching purpose books, these are the books designed to be the core or periphery of classes. they cost rarely less than 50 and rarely more than 200. these are textbook type books. they are bought by students primarily and are a huge profit center for presses.
library books, which are usually reference books are books that range from around 100 to around 20000 dollars and are meant to be bought by libraries for the use of many people over the long term.
Jeremy Hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture Virginia Tech
Live without dead time. -graffitti Paris 1968
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I agree with Steve that it comes down to individuals to choose to make their work available in a more equitable way, but I am also certain that there is a role for academic associations and institutions in the process. I fought (successfully) to have open access works valued more highly in the tenure process in our department, for example. And it is all to easy to forget many academic associations support themselves through journal publication--a fee often hidden in library expenses. I think AoIR is moving in the right direction with an effort to make conference papers openly available, but it seems as though we are late to that party. I strongly believe that increasing access to scholarly knowledge is a core mission of AoIR, and so finding ways of encouraging this is a worthwhile endeavor. It's all too easy to blame publishers for making profits through the process of exclusionary access, and forget that we are complicit in this when we choose to review for and submit to closed journals and publishers. Yes, there are sometimes reputational advantages to those publishers, and for that reason I couldn't quite go for the "full-danah" pledge of only open access ( http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/02/06/openaccess_is_t.html ) . I have, however, adhered to a half-danah pledge of making at least half of my work openly available. That would have been harder if I had remained pre-tenure at an R1, I'll admit, but sometimes doing the right thing isn't the same as doing the easy thing. I also think it's important for authors to recognize how their work will be made available. It's not just an ethical question but a strategic one. I published a chapter in the Handbook Jeremy edited, and it was--as he notes--even more expensive. Although it has been read, I am convinced that the price of that volume has kept it out of the hands of most of its intended audience. It's not a matter of the work being secret--in fact, I blogged a version of that chapter as I was writing it--it's a question of how many barriers we put up around our scholarship, and who ends up really paying for those barriers. Alex On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Steve Jones <sjones@uic.edu> wrote:
Since I was mentioned in Charles' email that started this thread....
I think Jeremy sums it up pretty well. I can't speak to Lang's business model, I haven't a clue about it. What I do know is that the books in Digital Formations aren't intended nor marketed to be "handbooks" or "reference books." In general those are perceived as very different from other types of books, textbooks and monographs. They usually have smaller press runs, more pages, are targeted at libraries (and other institutional buyers) and not individual buyers. Some presses publish only reference books, others publish a mix of those and other books. The business model relies on high prices to presumably at least break even with relatively few unit sales.
Sylvie Noel brought up in a subsequent email that there are people who publish e-books at very low cost (and, I would add, there are probably others who provide their work for free). There are alternatives such as these and others, and I have always encouraged AoIR to consider alternatives in general, so perhaps this is something to think about and to do. However, I would (always) add that it is not something we should look to AoIR to instigate, it is something that should come from members and those on air-l, who, if they are interested in pursuing alternatives, should pursue them and seek the support of AoIR (whatever form that support might take).
Similarly, I would very much like to encourage people to consider danah's recommendation in an email not part of the 'book announcement' thread of Ignite talks (and other forms of presentation) at the next AoIR. They need not even be within the structure of the program, but could take place at other points in time during the conference.
Part (perhaps a big part) of what one faces when proposing and engaging in alternatives to traditional scholarly modes of presentation is the seeming recalcitrance of the academy, but in my experience it can't hurt to try, and it just might help a lot.
Thanks,
Steve
On Mar 9, 2011, at 4:45 AM, jeremy hunsinger wrote:
-- // // This email is // [x] assumed public and may be blogged / forwarded. // [ ] assumed to be private, please ask before redistributing. // // Alexander C. Halavais, ciberflâneur // http://alex.halavais.net //
The University of Michigan Press and the University of Michigan Library have a joint effort, Digital Culture Books, where books are published in print and online where they are freely available under a CC license. http://www.digitalculture.org/about You can get a publication from a university press and everyone (who can access the internet) can read your ideas (if they accept your proposal, that is). (Disclaimer: My PhD is from UM.) I liked Charles' point (which others mentioned as well) about how this is considered a *library* book by the publisher. And I liked Alan's point about those of us who do not have a university affiliation (like myself, although I luckily have the New York Public Library). I can see that a publisher might consider books along the lines of who will buy it and what is the price (such as library books which are expensive), but I thought libraries were always underfunded and this kind of pricing doesn't help libraries. I want to say something like "I doubt it helps publishers either" but that's really beyond my ken. I like having a personal research library (paper, so old fashioned, I know). One of my grandfathers was a history teacher and there were always books around, shelves of two- or three-inch wide biographies of political figures and historical events. Maybe send out another announcement when it's available in paperback? (I admit I'll probably go spend $59.99 [then plus taxes $60+] for a copy of Dragon Age II... It's for study, of course.) -Nat. On Mar 9, 2011, at 9:38 AM, Alex Halavais wrote:
I agree with Steve that it comes down to individuals to choose to make their work available in a more equitable way, but I am also certain that there is a role for academic associations and institutions in the process. I fought (successfully) to have open access works valued more highly in the tenure process in our department, for example. And it is all to easy to forget many academic associations support themselves through journal publication--a fee often hidden in library expenses. I think AoIR is moving in the right direction with an effort to make conference papers openly available, but it seems as though we are late to that party. I strongly believe that increasing access to scholarly knowledge is a core mission of AoIR, and so finding ways of encouraging this is a worthwhile endeavor.
It's all too easy to blame publishers for making profits through the process of exclusionary access, and forget that we are complicit in this when we choose to review for and submit to closed journals and publishers. Yes, there are sometimes reputational advantages to those publishers, and for that reason I couldn't quite go for the "full-danah" pledge of only open access ( http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/02/06/openaccess_is_t.html ) . I have, however, adhered to a half-danah pledge of making at least half of my work openly available. That would have been harder if I had remained pre-tenure at an R1, I'll admit, but sometimes doing the right thing isn't the same as doing the easy thing.
I also think it's important for authors to recognize how their work will be made available. It's not just an ethical question but a strategic one. I published a chapter in the Handbook Jeremy edited, and it was--as he notes--even more expensive. Although it has been read, I am convinced that the price of that volume has kept it out of the hands of most of its intended audience. It's not a matter of the work being secret--in fact, I blogged a version of that chapter as I was writing it--it's a question of how many barriers we put up around our scholarship, and who ends up really paying for those barriers.
Alex
On Wed, Mar 9, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Steve Jones <sjones@uic.edu> wrote:
Since I was mentioned in Charles' email that started this thread....
I think Jeremy sums it up pretty well. I can't speak to Lang's business model, I haven't a clue about it. What I do know is that the books in Digital Formations aren't intended nor marketed to be "handbooks" or "reference books." In general those are perceived as very different from other types of books, textbooks and monographs. They usually have smaller press runs, more pages, are targeted at libraries (and other institutional buyers) and not individual buyers. Some presses publish only reference books, others publish a mix of those and other books. The business model relies on high prices to presumably at least break even with relatively few unit sales.
Sylvie Noel brought up in a subsequent email that there are people who publish e-books at very low cost (and, I would add, there are probably others who provide their work for free). There are alternatives such as these and others, and I have always encouraged AoIR to consider alternatives in general, so perhaps this is something to think about and to do. However, I would (always) add that it is not something we should look to AoIR to instigate, it is something that should come from members and those on air-l, who, if they are interested in pursuing alternatives, should pursue them and seek the support of AoIR (whatever form that support might take).
Similarly, I would very much like to encourage people to consider danah's recommendation in an email not part of the 'book announcement' thread of Ignite talks (and other forms of presentation) at the next AoIR. They need not even be within the structure of the program, but could take place at other points in time during the conference.
Part (perhaps a big part) of what one faces when proposing and engaging in alternatives to traditional scholarly modes of presentation is the seeming recalcitrance of the academy, but in my experience it can't hurt to try, and it just might help a lot.
Thanks,
Steve
On Mar 9, 2011, at 4:45 AM, jeremy hunsinger wrote:
-- // // This email is // [x] assumed public and may be blogged / forwarded. // [ ] assumed to be private, please ask before redistributing. // // Alexander C. Halavais, ciberflâneur // http://alex.halavais.net // _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
------------------------------- Nathaniel Poor, Ph.D. http://natpoor.blogspot.com/
... This just in ... @slashdot Crime writer makes a killing with 99 cent e-books from the let's-all-draw-demand-curves-for-a-while dept. http://j.mp/g2B68K
Hi! In my country, Argentina, that u$s213.20 means $852.80 in our currency (pesos), wich is about 1/3 of a regular income =( Alejandro Tortolini Scitech journalist - Teacher
participants (14)
-
Alan Sondheim -
Alejandro Tortolini -
Alex Halavais -
Alex Kuskis -
Charles Ess -
jeremy hunsinger -
Michael Gurstein -
Nathaniel Poor -
Peter Timusk -
Scott MacLeod -
Stephen J Cavrak Jr -
Steve Jones -
Sylvie Noel -
Tjarda Sixma