Re: [Air-L] Air-L Digest, Vol 49, Issue 22
Large unanswered social issues aside, I'd be wary of requiring/compelling students to knowingly break the Terms of Service of any company. Creating an account with fake information, pooled passwords, or a group account is directly addressed in the TOS at Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/terms.php I know it's a simplistic POV, but if you can't subvert TOS, established policies and assumptions in an educational context for an educational purpose, then where can you? Isn't it also at college people should be taught to be wary of Big Brother? Bruno
Bruno Selun wrote:
I know it's a simplistic POV, but if you can't subvert TOS, established policies and assumptions in an educational context for an educational purpose, then where can you?
Isn't it also at college people should be taught to be wary of Big Brother?
Yes - definitely it's the time and place to promote discussion and discourse about established policies and assumptions. That said, we should strongly consider that requiring students to break a TOS crosses a line that should be reserved for people doing it themselves with grounded knowledge and free will. The power of the lectern should not be used to require subversion on the part of the student. The students should have the option to investigate these questions themselves. And they should be encouraged to do so. I do not see these two things in opposition. Terrell PhD Student SILS at UNC-CH
I would be interested to see what an institutional review board would think of this thread. Admittedly, the proposed violation of TOS is for teaching, but the proposed activities are for student research as part of a pedagogical activity. Any members on IRBs at their institutions? Darren On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Terrell Russell <terrellrussell@gmail.com>wrote:
Bruno Selun wrote:
I know it's a simplistic POV, but if you can't subvert TOS, established policies and assumptions in an educational context for an educational purpose, then where can you?
Isn't it also at college people should be taught to be wary of Big
Brother?
Yes - definitely it's the time and place to promote discussion and discourse about established policies and assumptions.
That said, we should strongly consider that requiring students to break a TOS crosses a line that should be reserved for people doing it themselves with grounded knowledge and free will.
The power of the lectern should not be used to require subversion on the part of the student. The students should have the option to investigate these questions themselves. And they should be encouraged to do so.
I do not see these two things in opposition.
Terrell PhD Student SILS at UNC-CH
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Darren Purcell Assistant Professor and Undergraduate Advisor Dept. of Geography University of Oklahoma Email: purcell@ou.edu (405) 325-9193 http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/P/Darren.E.Purcell-1/
Hi Darren, My impression is that most IRB's are not yet aware that there are issues related to ToS' that might be problems for both instructional and research uses of the sites. At IU we (the IRB) have discussed some of the issues, though these discussions have not yet lead to a policy. I do think the questions that have been raised here are valid ones to discuss in light of the sites use in a classroom. However, I think there are much larger issues of ToS' and research design where the discussion is only beginning. Lois Ann Scheidt -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Darren Purcell Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 11:20 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Air-L Digest, Vol 49, Issue 22 I would be interested to see what an institutional review board would think of this thread. Admittedly, the proposed violation of TOS is for teaching, but the proposed activities are for student research as part of a pedagogical activity. Any members on IRBs at their institutions? Darren On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Terrell Russell <terrellrussell@gmail.com>wrote:
Bruno Selun wrote:
I know it's a simplistic POV, but if you can't subvert TOS, established policies and assumptions in an educational context for an educational purpose, then where can you?
Isn't it also at college people should be taught to be wary of Big
Brother?
Yes - definitely it's the time and place to promote discussion and discourse about established policies and assumptions.
That said, we should strongly consider that requiring students to break a TOS crosses a line that should be reserved for people doing it themselves with grounded knowledge and free will.
The power of the lectern should not be used to require subversion on the part of the student. The students should have the option to investigate these questions themselves. And they should be encouraged to do so.
I do not see these two things in opposition.
Terrell PhD Student SILS at UNC-CH
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Darren Purcell Assistant Professor and Undergraduate Advisor Dept. of Geography University of Oklahoma Email: purcell@ou.edu (405) 325-9193 http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/P/Darren.E.Purcell-1/ _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Good point! It may be interesting but many folks who sit on IRB's are tragically behind the times on web 2.0 as collection tools. Most are just getting on board and many still pine for the good old days of data collection. Seriously, my chair sat on the IRB committee back in 2006 and of course she could not review mine but she was horrified that many did not understand, like or favor data collection this way. I actually turned in a 52 page IRB with a mini-lit review with actual primary interviews leaders in the field and a huge list of references with studies from the UK, corporate proprietary studies and government studies that I had access to that most people would not have access to. I would still say that not providing your full name is a violation of TOS and it is established legal precedent in the world of entertainment and literature to use pen names and on air names. These organizations are now media and entertainment organizations hence the title social networking. As soon as they began allowing video and audio they have thrust themselves into public domain. I think providing a form of one's whole name is sufficient and not deceptive at all when one is protecting one's legal identity. I have been engaged in working with identity theft and misleading advertising for close to 15 years now, and to committed a serious crime online someone is going to have to prove intent to commit the act that one is accused of along with their state of mind. If my state of mind is to protect myself when no online company except one (the crazy guy in the commercial with his SS number on the truck - great ad but crazy for daring hackers) is guaranteeing that your identity is safe. Not even the govt can do it or private companies after the millions of folks who have had their personal data disclosed. I think we will be seeing appeals and a Supreme Court case and if the president is a dem which is a big if, I am confident that the pro-corporate agenda will be rolled back. You know things like DMCA and these danger TOS' that provide little protection for consumers who must literally give their personal histories away for free and trust a bunch of oligarchies to do the right thing when history (both past and present) shows they cannot protect anyone online so a prudent person has a duty to exercise due care and it is becoming increasingly more difficult NOT to operate online because companies want to save money and energy costs. -----Original Message----- From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Darren Purcell Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 11:20 AM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] Air-L Digest, Vol 49, Issue 22 I would be interested to see what an institutional review board would think of this thread. Admittedly, the proposed violation of TOS is for teaching, but the proposed activities are for student research as part of a pedagogical activity. Any members on IRBs at their institutions? Darren On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Terrell Russell <terrellrussell@gmail.com>wrote:
Bruno Selun wrote:
I know it's a simplistic POV, but if you can't subvert TOS, established policies and assumptions in an educational context for an educational purpose, then where can you?
Isn't it also at college people should be taught to be wary of Big
Brother?
Yes - definitely it's the time and place to promote discussion and discourse about established policies and assumptions.
That said, we should strongly consider that requiring students to break a TOS crosses a line that should be reserved for people doing it
themselves with grounded knowledge and free will.
The power of the lectern should not be used to require subversion on the part of the student. The students should have the option to investigate these questions themselves. And they should be encouraged to do so.
I do not see these two things in opposition.
Terrell PhD Student SILS at UNC-CH
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Darren Purcell Assistant Professor and Undergraduate Advisor Dept. of Geography University of Oklahoma Email: purcell@ou.edu (405) 325-9193 http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/P/Darren.E.Purcell-1/ _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
On Aug 22, 2008, at 5:17 AM, Bruno Selun wrote:
I know it's a simplistic POV, but if you can't subvert TOS, established policies and assumptions in an educational context for an educational purpose, then where can you?
Isn't it also at college people should be taught to be wary of Big Brother?
Michael Wesch has a nice video entitled "The Anthropology of YouTube" that speaks to these issues in an academic and professional way from the POV of an anthropologist ... http://www.youtube.com/user/mwesch An anthropological introduction to YouTube Presented at the Library of Congress, June 23rd 2008. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPAO-lZ4_hU
And he cites Barry's ideas on networked individualism. Go Barry! :-) On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Steve Cavrak <Steve.Cavrak@uvm.edu> wrote:
On Aug 22, 2008, at 5:17 AM, Bruno Selun wrote:
I know it's a simplistic POV, but if you can't subvert TOS, established
policies and assumptions in an educational context for an educational purpose, then where can you?
Isn't it also at college people should be taught to be wary of Big Brother?
Michael Wesch has a nice video entitled "The Anthropology of YouTube" that speaks to these issues in an academic and professional way from the POV of an anthropologist ...
http://www.youtube.com/user/mwesch
An anthropological introduction to YouTube Presented at the Library of Congress, June 23rd 2008. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPAO-lZ4_hU
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
-- Kim De Vries http://else-if-then.blogspot.com
participants (7)
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Bruno Selun -
Darren Purcell -
Heidelberg, Chris -
KMV -
Lois Ann Scheidt -
Steve Cavrak -
Terrell Russell