Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:31:47 -0500 From: Christian Nelson <cnelson@comm.umass.edu> Subject: Re: [Air-l] Re: Flame Wars Nancy's reflections make me wonder why there is even such a term as "flame" and "flame war"--a question that might be answered in part by the history of this term. Anyone know how these terms initially arose in discourse re: CMC? Thanks, for any info.
How about a guess? The custom used to be that a writer would be writing on a topic and then, to warn the readers or just to make it clear that strong emotion attached to upcoming words, would write <FLAME ON>. E.g.: "... and while we're on the subject... <FLAME ON> What Makes Him Think 640k Is All I Need?!!!" What followed a Flame On was usually an expression of anger or frustration or it might be an attack. There used to be a popular comic book (Marvel Comics?) superhero gang (Fantastic Four?) one of whose members was a quick-tempered guy who used fire to combat evil. In times of crisis he'd invoke the flames by saying FLAME ON and then his whole body would light up or he could throw fireballs or point his finger and become a flamethrower or something like that --- I really don't remember. He'd also light up involuntarily when he got angry, if I recall correctly. So that's the legend, I think: Comic book, <Flame On>, Flames, Flaming, Flame Wars. Does that help? ..Mickey Mickey Waxman University of Kansas USA
In this message, Danyel works backwards in time, finding flames in HTML, in 1981, in 1979, in 1959, and 1548. For the trivially-inclined only. Danyel ------ Sadly, the "<FLAME ON>" nomenclature comes from the HTML tags. As in, <BLINK>This text is annoying</BLINK> Or so I thought, until I found it in 1981 in the Google archive, when someone starts an article with <FLAME ON>. Maybe you're right. This discussion, on the origin of "flames" (and its possible relation to the homosexual sense of "flaming") happened in May of 1981 in the fa.human-nets group. http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22flame+on%22&hl=en&lr=lang_en&scoring=d &as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=31&as_maxm=5&as_maxy=19 81&selm=anews.Aucbvax.1401&rnum=5 http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22flame+on%22&hl=en&lr=lang_en&scoring=d &as_drrb=b&as_mind=12&as_minm=1&as_miny=1981&as_maxd=31&as_maxm=5&as_maxy=19 81&selm=anews.Aucbvax.1430&rnum=2 which I've shortened to http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z25613A4 and http://makeashorterlink.com/?M46632A4 At that time, the term is clearly already well-known. Check with the cyberspace-history list, http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/cyhist.html which mentions http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/CGI/wa.exe?A2=ind9710D&L=cyhist&P=R61 a citation for "Flames" in 1975 (but no etymology) In contrast http://www.midnightbeach.com/iob/ cites flames as coming from 1959 (!) at Xerox PARC, "A personal, ad hominem attack. Back in 1959, Xerox PARC (which invented computers but couldn't figure out how to get credit for it) had a program called The Emoticon, which graphically displayed the content of email travelling over a network link. Logical, rational messages were shown in cool colors like blue and white, while heated, emotional messages were shown in warm colors like red and yellow. The flickering, firelike patterns that irate messages created quickly caused them to be dubbed "flames", and the name stuck. " The OED writes [Flame] b. Of persons: To burn (with envy, fury, indignation, etc.); to look angrily or passionately upon. to flame out, up: to break out into open anger or indignation; to 'fire up'. 1548 UDALL, etc. Erasm. Par. Matt. xxii. 106 Whiche wholy flame with enuy and hatred. 1681 CROWNE Hen. VI, IV. 49, I flame with fury to be at it. a1701 SEDLEY Happy Pair (1766) 16 With heat of loue he flam'd upon his mate. Danyel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Waxman, Mickey B" <mickey@ku.edu>
How about a guess? The custom used to be that a writer would be writing on a topic and then, to warn the readers or just to make it clear that strong emotion attached to upcoming words, would write <FLAME ON>. E.g.:
Re: my inquiry about the origins of using "flame" for labeling an angry, etc. post Mickey Waxman wrote:
[...] So that's the legend, I think: Comic book, <Flame On>, Flames, Flaming, Flame Wars.
Does that help?
Who cares if it helps--its beautiful. If it isn't right it should be! Of course, if anyone can add any historical documentation for Mickey's suggestion, I'd love to hear of it. Cheers, Christian Nelson
participants (3)
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Christian Nelson -
Danyel Fisher -
Waxman, Mickey B