Hi, I might point out that 1) Not all of us are in the US, and the US constitution is of limited interest and applicability to a lot of us, apart from being a major influence on the big tech companies we are forced to interact with. Moreover, big tech companies need to also take the laws in other countries into account if they wish to officially operate and generate ad revenue there. 2) Criminality includes, in far too many jurisdictions, things like "homosexual propaganda". Should that be suppressed? Why, or why not? To me referring exclusively to 'legality' (in a specific jurisdiction, no less) tells me basically nothing about what you actually believe should be suppressed or not, and by whom. 3) A systems purpose is what it does. The 'marketplace' is not only not equal from the start, but also reproduces and increases inequality and power imbalances. In sum I would reiterate Sky's point about widening one's scope in terms of the "free speech" debate, not only in relation to harassment, but also more generally. In particular, it might be instructive to be a bit introspective and ask _why_ do you want some specific version of 'free' speech? Who is it that you want to hear, or to be heard? Who is it that you want to speak to, or be heard by? And about what? Best, /P On 06 December, 2022 - Paul Levinson via Air-L wrote:
Thanks for the link to your article, Sky -- I found it enlightening in several ways.
I will point out, however, two points in which we might not agree: 1. As I mentioned in my Op-Ed, criminal activity was and is never protected by the First Amendment. Although I gave only two examples in my short essay -- misleading info about Covid, and the storming of the US Capitol in January 2021 -- there of course are many other kinds of crimes that should not and would not be protected speech. These certainly include harassment. 2. You say the "marketplace of ideas" is inherently not equal. No doubt that's true in practice -- and true of everything. But it's worth pointing out that, in theory, the marketplace of ideas is supposed to provide equal access to all ideas. Indeed, as I say in the op-ed, that's its raison d'etre.
-- PL
On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 6:10 PM Sky Croeser <scroeser@gmail.com> wrote:
With some trepidation, I'm going to build on what Morten is saying to add that "free speech", and the US Constitution, are not the only frameworks that we might use to think through these ideas. Avoiding state repression is important, but if all attempts to shape the spaces where we discuss and deliberate are positioned as being somewhere along the line between "censorship" and "free speech", we miss other important considerations.
There are important questions that are not always best answered within this framework, including: * Who gets to speak, and who gets listened to? * Who is safe speaking? * Do the structures we build support constructive (or transformative, or generative) dialogue, or conflict? * What kinds of ideas and emotions spread through different systems we build?
These questions are worth asking not just about Twitter but also about alternatives we're exploring, and I hope that we'll consider other frameworks of thought beyond the liberal free speech framework.
I've written more about this here: https://adanewmedia.org/2016/10/issue10-croeser/
And there's also a comic version! Available to print out at home and turn into a booklet if you need a fun stocking stuffer!*
https://medium.com/@nicolemarieburton/a-new-comic-that-challenges-us-to-refr...
*I'm joking please don't shout at me but please feel free to ask for a printable version
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 at 6:44 am, Paul Levinson via Air-L < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
Thanks for that, Morten. I do make precisely that point -- the difference between government censorship and private organization content moderation -- in my Op-Ed.
-- Paul
On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 5:11 PM Morten Bay via Air-L < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
Before this discussion goes any further (or off the rails), I have a small request on behalf of those of us on the sidelines trying to learn from people smarter than us:
When we discuss these matters, can we please distinguish between state-enforced censorship and oppression of free speech versus the also-constitutionally protected rights to content moderation and editorial decisions in privately-held media? Can we please also distinguish between coercion and persuasion as expressions of power?
I think that will generate a more nuanced and less polarized discussion to everyone’s benefit.
Thanks.
Morten
From: Air-L <air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org> on behalf of andrew.lowenthal--- via Air-L <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 at 12:23 PM To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Subject: Re: [Air-L] Elon Musk & free speech It is truly breathtaking that the default position now in 'academia' is one of free speech suppression...
"Do we tolerate too much?" is asked... perhaps ask someone in Indonesia who as of today can face jail criticising the president... anti-free speech 'liberals' embolden authoritarians around the world.
The fact that people are going in to bat for Big Tech for suppressing a story about the Biden family dealings in Ukraine and China (to say nothing of Hunter's predilections for cocaine and sex workers) is astounding... how much lower can 'academia' sink?
Interest in the actual truth is long gone, and liberals are just as partisan as conservatives. Intellectuals who care nothing for party tribalism are all but extinct (or at least very quiet).
If you are interested in a different take you might like to try this...
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://disinformationchronicle.substack.com/p/p...
<
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/disinformationchronicle.substack.com/p/pu...
Best, Andrew
On 12/6/22 20:51, Paul Levinson via Air-L wrote:
just up on NBC News Think: my op-ed about Elon Musk and free speech <
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/elon-musks...
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