this discussion becomes ever more interesting.... I was esp. intrigued by Charles# and Michelle's postings.. which got me to think on the notion of space and spatiality as it seemed to have been used throughout the debate... and I might have missed something...so be kind.. space and spatiality were/are discussed with reference to physical space.. the 'real', embodiement.. Michelle's setting tried to get away from it and indeed I think this is a good idea.. studies in urban sociology and the sociology of space have indeed discussed a dichotomy which might be helpful for us... The two arguments or lines of thought can be divided into approaches that see a. space as a container7absolute space ->eucliadian space where action in these spaces does not affect the spatial construction, look or make-up b. relational space -> space is formed by action, experiences and changes spaces on a constant basis. Furthermore a person can inhabit different spaces at a time, because the concept is context driven. REbecca bryant - I cited her work earlier - argues for a. in the case of Cyberspace, as she sees the computers and cables as the container. I disagree with that, but have also difficulties with point b. Looking for a term to describe the "space" we are talking about is difficult, as we want to make a statement and localize people and the communication between them somewhere. Setting would be a start to get away from it... Sphere of experience another... Gibson calls it "hallucination" , which has more to do with the cognitive aspects then with the "locus". I also find it hard to talk about on/offline.. and think about something that can describe the "continuum of experience" of communication and actions and hence social relations better... social relations do not have to be space bound, but create a whole, whichmay constitute space, not necessarily physical in nature... I hope I still make sense and have not lost all of you by now.. before I do I leave at that and wait for your comments.. bes t nilz -- Dr. Nils Zurawski Universität Hamburg Inst. für kriminologische Sozialforschung Allendeplatz 1 20146 Hamburg Germany tel. +49 (0) 40 42838 6185 fax. +49 (0) 40 42838 2328 Projekt zu Videoüberwachung: http://www.uni-muenster.de/PeaCon/zurawski/ueberwachung