I don't think this is really fair... 'haters gonna hate' I think it is fair to recognize that many of us in this field have been extraordinarily lucky, benefited immensely by the opportunities we could take that others could not. I think it is fair to realize that we might be entering an age where most people who graduate with ph.d.'s will not become professors or professional researchers, or really have as much choice in their careers as they might imagine the ph.d affords. I know danah works hard and does great work and I deeply appreciate everything she has done and is doing to make her and other researcher's work relevant to policymakers, businesses and others, but i think it is fair to recognize that she had opportunities, took them, and had she not been presented with those opportunities and had the capacity to take them, she wouldn't be in the same place in her career, I thinks she's said as much on her blog and elsewhere. The problem is that many people don't get great opportunities and even if they do, not everyone has the capacity to pursue them, in other words lives and careers aren't fair. I think we can acknowledge that many things in the ph.d. and professorial/research system aren't fair, they are dependent on many factors and realize that people can honestly feel and think that things could have been different and more fair from their perspective. So to say that not everyone gets to go to Berkeley and meet a great advisor... that I think is fine and true, and while i do feel there may be some emotional commitments to the statement.... I don't think it is 'haters gonna hate'... I think it is just indicating something that we should be telling our graduate students, 'you may not get a t-t job or even the job you want, and that won't be your fault' (though it could be their fault, i don't deny that either). I've worked professionally in academia for 12 years now, and it is not all pretty and some of it is downright ugly. I've seen brilliant people drop out of tenure track, I've seen brilliant people quit while adjuncting, and I've had colleagues and friends drink themselves to death, and commit suicide in graduate school and on the t-t (Granted this happens all the time in the rest of the professional world too, which is sort of my point). It isn't fair at all, they all were great and interesting people that did well with students and their work. I'd say they didn't deserve to leave the way they did, but I honestly think that deserving isn't the real issue as there isn't really a justice here, there is just universities, states, and capital, and the people in them trying to get by and do the best they can, which again, usually isn't just or fair. For me though, it is a job and probably my career. my best advice to those seeking to get a ph.d. usually is 'do not get a ph.d.' past that, get two sets of statistics from the dept before you apply. get their gradation rates for 5 and 10 years and get their placement rate in the sort of job you want. almost every accrediting agency requires some compilation of these numbers, so they probably exist or should exist somewhere. Departments rarely report them unless they are excellent in graduate rate and in placement. There are places out there who take in doctoral students, 10 per year, graduate 3 of those after 10 years, and only place 10% in academia. There are places out there that want to start Ph.D. programs so that their senior professors don't have to teach the introduction courses, and similar things. That's fine if the students know that, and know what kind of jobs are being had by the student body. We just need to be much more real about these things. For my part... I know I have been extremely lucky so far in my career, with my colleagues in AoIR, at Virginia Tech, and around the world, and I am eternally grateful for everything that everyone has done for me and I will continue doing what I can, even if it means that occasionally i post responses like this. -- jeremy hunsinger Center for Digital Discourse and Culture Virginia Tech www.tmttlt.com () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments http://www.stswiki.org/ sts wiki http://transdisciplinarystudies.tmttlt.com/ Transdisciplinary Studies:the book series I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. -Pablo Picasso