ICE-T: I think joana made a good point arguing that for luhmann exchange, markets, money, etc. are forms of communication, money is a general medium of communication for luhmann (just like power, etc.). i think one has to be careful - because exchange in modern society is exchange of commodities mediated by money that hence becomes capital that is accumulated. this also means that icE-t is synonymous with ICTs for a capitalist economy. although you could argue that one can have a more general notion of exchange (e. as e of information), the concept of exchange is so much connected linguistically to exchange value, markets, capital, profit, etc. hence i consider the term ICE-T as uncritical and affirmative, it is even imperialistic because it excludes all the forms of the gift economy that are mediated by ICTs and focus on use values as gifts and not on exchange values. i think a term general enough to encompass both the ICT economy based on exchange value (and commodities) and the ICT economy based on use value (and gifts) is needed. ICT hence is better than ICE-T. i would even argue that there is an antagonism between the internet gift economy and the internet commodity economy. one can argue that gifts are not altruistic and require gifts in return so that the gift economy becomes an exchange economy. that can be the case, but is not automatically the case as studies of gifts have shown. best christian joana ro schrieb:
Exchanging goods, buying and selling is viewed as communication by Luhmann isn't it? Money as media, buying/selling as the act of communicating. (Would have to go back to the texts to figure out where he says this though.) Just because Luhmann said that, doesn't mean it isn't a real stretch of course, just happened to think of him when reading your email. Johanna
Johanna Roering Sfb War Experience University of Tuebingen Germany
On 7/5/07, Barry Wellman <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> wrote:
A group of us have been studying Chapleau, northern Ontario. We have discovered that in addition to the I and the C of ICT, the folks there use the Internet more than urbanites to find out about -- and to order -- goods. Sorta like the Sears or the Eatons catalog of old that served rural areas. Some may even sell on eBay, etc -- we'll check on that this fall.
Altho you might argue that browsing the net for goods is "Information", it would be a real stretch to say that actually buying and selling goods is info (or comm). Hence, we propose the new acronym, ICE-T, for Information, Communication and Exchange Technologies.*
Before I/we go too far with this, what do you think?
*Not to be confused with the actor/rapper or the tilting German train, much less that heavily sweetened stuff I get in the US South. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE-T
PS: Happy Canada Day to all.
Barry Wellman _______________________________________________________________________
S.D. Clark Professor of Sociology, FRSC NetLab Director Centre for Urban & Community Studies University of Toronto 455 Spadina Avenue Toronto Canada M5S 2G8 fax:+1-416-978-7162 wellman at chass.utoronto.ca http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman For fun -- updating songs, movies and history: http://chass.utoronto.ca/oldnew/cybertimes.php Elvis wouldn't be singing Return to Sender these days _______________________________________________________________________
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