fyi: Zoom claims right to use your sessions to train AI
Hi folks - As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice. [1] https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/ Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their (potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom. <sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed & empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/ -- rick -- Dr. Richard Forno Principal Lecturer, CSEE Director, Graduate Cybersecurity Program Assistant Director, UMBC Center for Cybersecurity Affiliate Scholar, Stanford Law School Center for Internet and Society
Hi, rick -- Thanks for sharing this. I saw your post on the fediverse, and following your lead, read the relevant section. In my professional opinion: Zoom's claim to our voice and face data for training AI is super gross. People may wonder: what do we do instead of Zoom? One answer I could point to is Nextcloud. I host my own Nextcloud server and I regularly use its Talk application to do video chats -- in fact, I just got off a call with an interviewee for my book project. For those of you who don't self-host and want to rely on university or institutional licenses, Nextcloud could be something to point to when you talk to your admins about where to go if Zoom is no longer attractive. There are obviously other alternatives (e.g., Jitsi) but I can personally say Nextcloud has done well for me. - Rob On 2023-08-07 07:47, Richard Forno via Air-L wrote:
Hi folks -
As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice.
[1] https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/
Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their (potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom.
<sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed & empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/
-- rick
My hope is that large institutions -- such as universities -- have licenses that would not permit this...? ---Joseph On 8/7/23 11:35, Robert W Gehl via Air-L wrote:
Hi, rick --
Thanks for sharing this. I saw your post on the fediverse, and following your lead, read the relevant section. In my professional opinion: Zoom's claim to our voice and face data for training AI is super gross.
People may wonder: what do we do instead of Zoom? One answer I could point to is Nextcloud. I host my own Nextcloud server and I regularly use its Talk application to do video chats -- in fact, I just got off a call with an interviewee for my book project.
For those of you who don't self-host and want to rely on university or institutional licenses, Nextcloud could be something to point to when you talk to your admins about where to go if Zoom is no longer attractive.
There are obviously other alternatives (e.g., Jitsi) but I can personally say Nextcloud has done well for me.
- Rob
On 2023-08-07 07:47, Richard Forno via Air-L wrote:
Hi folks -
As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice.
[1] https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/
Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their (potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom.
<sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed & empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/
-- rick
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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I suspect that the best chance of stopping this is publicity. The more media coverage of it, the better. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Reagle via Air-L" <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> To: "Robert W Gehl" <lists@robertwgehl.org>, "air-l" <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 1:07:17 PM Subject: Re: [Air-L] fyi: Zoom claims right to use your sessions to train AI My hope is that large institutions -- such as universities -- have licenses that would not permit this...? ---Joseph On 8/7/23 11:35, Robert W Gehl via Air-L wrote:
Hi, rick --
Thanks for sharing this. I saw your post on the fediverse, and following your lead, read the relevant section. In my professional opinion: Zoom's claim to our voice and face data for training AI is super gross.
People may wonder: what do we do instead of Zoom? One answer I could point to is Nextcloud. I host my own Nextcloud server and I regularly use its Talk application to do video chats -- in fact, I just got off a call with an interviewee for my book project.
For those of you who don't self-host and want to rely on university or institutional licenses, Nextcloud could be something to point to when you talk to your admins about where to go if Zoom is no longer attractive.
There are obviously other alternatives (e.g., Jitsi) but I can personally say Nextcloud has done well for me.
- Rob
On 2023-08-07 07:47, Richard Forno via Air-L wrote:
Hi folks -
As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice.
[1] https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/
Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their (potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom.
<sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed & empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/
-- rick
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FYI. This is true only for non-enterprise accounts, according to Michael Hess, UM school of information’s resident IT sage.. The enterprise license has restrictions on how data can be used, and we (UM) has a standard data protection agreement as well. On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 1:29 PM Colin Delany via Air-L < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
I suspect that the best chance of stopping this is publicity. The more media coverage of it, the better.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Reagle via Air-L" <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> To: "Robert W Gehl" <lists@robertwgehl.org>, "air-l" < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 1:07:17 PM Subject: Re: [Air-L] fyi: Zoom claims right to use your sessions to train AI
My hope is that large institutions -- such as universities -- have licenses that would not permit this...? ---Joseph
On 8/7/23 11:35, Robert W Gehl via Air-L wrote:
Hi, rick --
Thanks for sharing this. I saw your post on the fediverse, and following your lead, read the relevant section. In my professional opinion: Zoom's claim to our voice and face data for training AI is super gross.
People may wonder: what do we do instead of Zoom? One answer I could point to is Nextcloud. I host my own Nextcloud server and I regularly use its Talk application to do video chats -- in fact, I just got off a call with an interviewee for my book project.
For those of you who don't self-host and want to rely on university or institutional licenses, Nextcloud could be something to point to when you talk to your admins about where to go if Zoom is no longer attractive.
There are obviously other alternatives (e.g., Jitsi) but I can personally say Nextcloud has done well for me.
- Rob
On 2023-08-07 07:47, Richard Forno via Air-L wrote:
Hi folks -
As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice.
[1] https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/
Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their (potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom.
<sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed & empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/
-- rick
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Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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-- - Mark, sent from my cell
According to Mastodon <https://mastodon.nycmesh.net/@webmink@meshed.cloud/110849597834775580>.... Zoom's ToS just changed. https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/ 10.4 has had the addition "Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use
audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent."
Also, by the by, robots.txt now blocks ChatGPT https://platform.openai.com/docs/gptbot J On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 3:25 PM Mark Ackerman via Air-L < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
FYI. This is true only for non-enterprise accounts, according to Michael Hess, UM school of information’s resident IT sage.. The enterprise license has restrictions on how data can be used, and we (UM) has a standard data protection agreement as well.
On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 1:29 PM Colin Delany via Air-L < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
I suspect that the best chance of stopping this is publicity. The more media coverage of it, the better.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Reagle via Air-L" <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> To: "Robert W Gehl" <lists@robertwgehl.org>, "air-l" < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 1:07:17 PM Subject: Re: [Air-L] fyi: Zoom claims right to use your sessions to train AI
My hope is that large institutions -- such as universities -- have licenses that would not permit this...? ---Joseph
On 8/7/23 11:35, Robert W Gehl via Air-L wrote:
Hi, rick --
Thanks for sharing this. I saw your post on the fediverse, and following your lead, read the relevant section. In my professional opinion: Zoom's claim to our voice and face data for training AI is super gross.
People may wonder: what do we do instead of Zoom? One answer I could point to is Nextcloud. I host my own Nextcloud server and I regularly use its Talk application to do video chats -- in fact, I just got off a call with an interviewee for my book project.
For those of you who don't self-host and want to rely on university or institutional licenses, Nextcloud could be something to point to when you talk to your admins about where to go if Zoom is no longer attractive.
There are obviously other alternatives (e.g., Jitsi) but I can personally say Nextcloud has done well for me.
- Rob
On 2023-08-07 07:47, Richard Forno via Air-L wrote:
Hi folks -
As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice.
[1] https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/
Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their (potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom.
<sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed & empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/
-- rick
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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-- - Mark, sent from my cell _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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-- -------------------------------------- Joly MacFie +12185659365 -------------------------------------- -
Dear colleagues, I’m not very familiar with the legalese but under section 10.4 it says: *Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.* Is that meant to indicate that they automatically do not use content to train? Or that they will ask specific consent if they do want to use it for training? Or that signing the agreement automatically provides consent? It’s not quite clear to me. Kind regards, Nadia On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 19:39, Colin Delany via Air-L <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
I suspect that the best chance of stopping this is publicity. The more media coverage of it, the better.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Reagle via Air-L" <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> To: "Robert W Gehl" <lists@robertwgehl.org>, "air-l" < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 1:07:17 PM Subject: Re: [Air-L] fyi: Zoom claims right to use your sessions to train AI
My hope is that large institutions -- such as universities -- have licenses that would not permit this...? ---Joseph
On 8/7/23 11:35, Robert W Gehl via Air-L wrote:
Hi, rick --
Thanks for sharing this. I saw your post on the fediverse, and following your lead, read the relevant section. In my professional opinion: Zoom's claim to our voice and face data for training AI is super gross.
People may wonder: what do we do instead of Zoom? One answer I could point to is Nextcloud. I host my own Nextcloud server and I regularly use its Talk application to do video chats -- in fact, I just got off a call with an interviewee for my book project.
For those of you who don't self-host and want to rely on university or institutional licenses, Nextcloud could be something to point to when you talk to your admins about where to go if Zoom is no longer attractive.
There are obviously other alternatives (e.g., Jitsi) but I can personally say Nextcloud has done well for me.
- Rob
On 2023-08-07 07:47, Richard Forno via Air-L wrote:
Hi folks -
As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice.
[1] https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/
Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their (potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom.
<sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed & empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/
-- rick
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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-- *Ms Nadia Tjahja* United Nations University – CRIS | Digital Governance Cluster | Co-Coordinator of the Digital Governance Cluster & PhD Fellow www.cris.unu.edu Vrije Universiteit Brussel | Brussels School of Governance | PhD Researcher https://brussels-school.be/research/digitalisation-democracy-and-innovation Communications Chair, Global Internet Governance Academic Network (GigaNet) YOUthDIG Coordinator, European Dialogue on Internet Governance (EuroDIG) *Recent publications* Tjahja, N., Meyer, T., Shahin, J., (2022). Who do you think you are? Individual stakeholder identification and mobility at the Internet Governance Forum. *Telecommunications Policy**, 46*(10*)**,* 102410. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.telpol.2022.102410 Tjahja, N., Meyer, T., & Shahin, J. (2021). What is civil society and who represents civil society at the IGF? An analysis of civil society typologies in internet governance. *Telecommunications Policy*, *45*(6), 102141. doi:10.1016/j.telpol.2021.102141 <https://doi.org/10.1016/j.telpol.2021.102141>
Nadia, I was confused by that sentence too. It’s very oddly worded and this feels very fluid to me… Best, Charles From: Air-L <air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org> on behalf of Nadia Tjahja via Air-L <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Date: Monday, August 7, 2023 at 1:34 PM To: Colin Delany <cpd@epolitics.com> Cc: air-l <air-l@listserv.aoir.org>, Colin Delany <cpd@his.com> Subject: Re: [Air-L] fyi: Zoom claims right to use your sessions to train AI Dear colleagues, I’m not very familiar with the legalese but under section 10.4 it says: *Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.* Is that meant to indicate that they automatically do not use content to train? Or that they will ask specific consent if they do want to use it for training? Or that signing the agreement automatically provides consent? It’s not quite clear to me. Kind regards, Nadia On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 19:39, Colin Delany via Air-L <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
I suspect that the best chance of stopping this is publicity. The more media coverage of it, the better.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Reagle via Air-L" <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> To: "Robert W Gehl" <lists@robertwgehl.org>, "air-l" < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 1:07:17 PM Subject: Re: [Air-L] fyi: Zoom claims right to use your sessions to train AI
My hope is that large institutions -- such as universities -- have licenses that would not permit this...? ---Joseph
On 8/7/23 11:35, Robert W Gehl via Air-L wrote:
Hi, rick --
Thanks for sharing this. I saw your post on the fediverse, and following your lead, read the relevant section. In my professional opinion: Zoom's claim to our voice and face data for training AI is super gross.
People may wonder: what do we do instead of Zoom? One answer I could point to is Nextcloud. I host my own Nextcloud server and I regularly use its Talk application to do video chats -- in fact, I just got off a call with an interviewee for my book project.
For those of you who don't self-host and want to rely on university or institutional licenses, Nextcloud could be something to point to when you talk to your admins about where to go if Zoom is no longer attractive.
There are obviously other alternatives (e.g., Jitsi) but I can personally say Nextcloud has done well for me.
- Rob
On 2023-08-07 07:47, Richard Forno via Air-L wrote:
Hi folks -
As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice.
Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their (potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom.
<sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed & empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/
-- rick
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-- *Ms Nadia Tjahja* United Nations University – CRIS | Digital Governance Cluster | Co-Coordinator of the Digital Governance Cluster & PhD Fellow https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.cris.unu.edu__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVJqvSr1k$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.cris.unu.edu__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVJqvSr1k$> Vrije Universiteit Brussel | Brussels School of Governance | PhD Researcher https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brussels-school.be/research/digitalisation-democracy-and-innovation__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVRpC0XIw$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brussels-school.be/research/digitalisation-democracy-and-innovation__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVRpC0XIw$> Communications Chair, Global Internet Governance Academic Network (GigaNet) YOUthDIG Coordinator, European Dialogue on Internet Governance (EuroDIG) *Recent publications* Tjahja, N., Meyer, T., Shahin, J., (2022). Who do you think you are? Individual stakeholder identification and mobility at the Internet Governance Forum. *Telecommunications Policy**, 46*(10*)**,* 102410. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1016/j.telpol.2022.102410__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVwYxSX_I$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/doi.org/10.1016/j.telpol.2022.102410__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVwYxSX_I$> Tjahja, N., Meyer, T., & Shahin, J. (2021). What is civil society and who represents civil society at the IGF? An analysis of civil society typologies in internet governance. *Telecommunications Policy*, *45*(6), 102141. doi:10.1016/j.telpol.2021.102141 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1016/j.telpol.2021.102141__;!... > _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://aoir.org__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVj0AKmis$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/aoir.org__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVj0AKmis$> Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeViYjtOVA$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeViYjtOVA$> Join the Association of Internet Researchers: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.aoir.org/__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVX7menqc$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.aoir.org/__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDTTLKkt_T9XIqyr-PJBnmF5a7ceewkfB0QKHoWdCupuvwQQfZ-jhPIaBOH6NWcRf4WDfhl53XAeVX7menqc$>
Hi, FYI here is an open-access link (works for 2 weeks from today) to a Washington Post story on this. https://wapo.st/454pykT As per usual, the AoIR community was spot on about violation of user rights ... Sarah Sarah Oates Pronoun: she/her Professor and Senior Scholar Philip Merrill College of Journalism Distinguished Scholar-Teacher University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742 Email: soates@umd.edu Phone: 301 455 2332 www.media-politics.com Twitter: @media_politics On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 5:39 PM Charles Eppley via Air-L < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
Nadia,
I was confused by that sentence too. It’s very oddly worded and this feels very fluid to me…
Best, Charles
From: Air-L <air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org> on behalf of Nadia Tjahja via Air-L <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Date: Monday, August 7, 2023 at 1:34 PM To: Colin Delany <cpd@epolitics.com> Cc: air-l <air-l@listserv.aoir.org>, Colin Delany <cpd@his.com> Subject: Re: [Air-L] fyi: Zoom claims right to use your sessions to train AI Dear colleagues,
I’m not very familiar with the legalese but under section 10.4 it says:
*Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.*
Is that meant to indicate that they automatically do not use content to train? Or that they will ask specific consent if they do want to use it for training? Or that signing the agreement automatically provides consent? It’s not quite clear to me.
Kind regards, Nadia
On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 at 19:39, Colin Delany via Air-L < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
I suspect that the best chance of stopping this is publicity. The more media coverage of it, the better.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Reagle via Air-L" <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> To: "Robert W Gehl" <lists@robertwgehl.org>, "air-l" < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 1:07:17 PM Subject: Re: [Air-L] fyi: Zoom claims right to use your sessions to train AI
My hope is that large institutions -- such as universities -- have licenses that would not permit this...? ---Joseph
On 8/7/23 11:35, Robert W Gehl via Air-L wrote:
Hi, rick --
Thanks for sharing this. I saw your post on the fediverse, and following your lead, read the relevant section. In my professional opinion: Zoom's claim to our voice and face data for training AI is super gross.
People may wonder: what do we do instead of Zoom? One answer I could point to is Nextcloud. I host my own Nextcloud server and I regularly use its Talk application to do video chats -- in fact, I just got off a call with an interviewee for my book project.
For those of you who don't self-host and want to rely on university or institutional licenses, Nextcloud could be something to point to when you talk to your admins about where to go if Zoom is no longer attractive.
There are obviously other alternatives (e.g., Jitsi) but I can personally say Nextcloud has done well for me.
- Rob
On 2023-08-07 07:47, Richard Forno via Air-L wrote:
Hi folks -
As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice.
[1] https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/__;!!IKRxdwAv5B... < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/explore.zoom.us/en/terms/__;!!IKRxdwAv5Bm...
Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their
(potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom.
<sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed &
empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/
-- rick
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-- *Ms Nadia Tjahja*
United Nations University – CRIS | Digital Governance Cluster | Co-Coordinator of the Digital Governance Cluster & PhD Fellow
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.cris.unu.edu__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyD... < https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.cris.unu.edu__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!fCjyDT...
Vrije Universiteit Brussel | Brussels School of Governance | PhD Researcher
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brussels-school.be/research/digitalisati... < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brussels-school.be/research/digitalisatio...
Communications Chair, Global Internet Governance Academic Network (GigaNet) YOUthDIG Coordinator, European Dialogue on Internet Governance (EuroDIG)
*Recent publications* Tjahja, N., Meyer, T., Shahin, J., (2022). Who do you think you are? Individual stakeholder identification and mobility at the Internet Governance Forum. *Telecommunications Policy**, 46*(10*)**,* 102410.
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1016/j.telpol.2022.102410__;!... < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/doi.org/10.1016/j.telpol.2022.102410__;!!...
Tjahja, N., Meyer, T., & Shahin, J. (2021). What is civil society and who represents civil society at the IGF? An analysis of civil society typologies in internet governance. *Telecommunications Policy*, *45*(6), 102141. doi:10.1016/j.telpol.2021.102141 < https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1016/j.telpol.2021.102141__;!...
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I'd like to believe Zoom merely plans to improve its voice-to-text service with this AI training. Still a few of our in-house concerns include: 1. Does this AI training include webcam, voice, text chat, or the text from voice-to-text in or from meetings held in Zoom? 2. Does the AI training include documents, spreadsheets, images, or other files transferred through Zoom? 3. Does the AI training include images, likenesses, or other information gathered during screen sharing? 4. What sort of data collection, if any, does Zoom do through its apps which run on PC, Mac, Android, etc.? 5. Will there be direct or indirect transfer or resale of the collected data? We may move to an open source solution rather than Zoom. We're concerned about privacy and security, particularly given some of our projects. Fred -- Fred Fuchs - Founder, CEO, & Producer FireSabre Consulting LLC Content Services for Virtual Worlds Creation, Events, Training, & Simulations --- On 8/7/2023 6:47 AM, Richard Forno via Air-L wrote:
Hi folks -
As I posted to rickf@indieweb.social <mailto:rickf@indieweb.social> yesterday, for those who may be using Zoom for teaching, research, external collaborations and/or personal meetings, please note that their latest terms of service (7/27/23) sections 10.1 - 10.4 seems to give them the right to use the audio/video/shared content from your Zoom sessions to train AI models.[1] I'm not aware of any opt-out to this collection. This item began surfacing over the weekend so more coverage in the coming days is likely as the tech & privacy communities digest the potential legal, medical, educational, and IP ramifications of this practice.
[1] https://explore.zoom.us/en/terms/
Just providing a heads-up for AoIRistas concerned with how their (potentially sensitive) data, voice, and/or likeness - or those of their friends, family, students, or collaborators - may be used by a third party. IIRC BlueSky claims something similar with content posted on that platform, but imo that's not as far-reaching or potentially invasive as this move by Zoom.
<sigh> One wonders if there are any internet ethics folks employed & empowered @ these places anymore, but I'm not optimistic. :/
-- rick
Even "mere" voice-to-text training has a side-effect. Human stenos refusing to caption into Zoom. https://twitter.com/whitecoatcapxg/status/1688571524528107520 On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 3:22 PM Fred Fuchs via Air-L <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
I'd like to believe Zoom merely plans to improve its voice-to-text service with this AI training.
-- -------------------------------------- Joly MacFie +12185659365 -------------------------------------- -
In addition to questions of job security for stenos and others, failure to disclose or get opt-in to use others' intellectual property and speech for AI training will likely lead to class action lawsuits in the US. Fred --- On 8/8/2023 4:55 PM, Joly MacFie wrote:
Even "mere" voice-to-text training has a side-effect. Human stenos refusing to caption into Zoom.
https://twitter.com/whitecoatcapxg/status/1688571524528107520
On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 3:22 PM Fred Fuchs via Air-L <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
I'd like to believe Zoom merely plans to improve its voice-to-text service with this AI training.
-- -------------------------------------- Joly MacFie +12185659365 -------------------------------------- -
Where this is already getting interesting - people go to meetings on Zoom outside their institutions. I was at a webinar last week and was notified after I got there that they'd (and, FYI, this was a US public university) enabled the Zoom AI captioning feature. J. Meryl Krieger, Ph.D. *she/her/hers* Senior Learning Designer, Arts & Sciences Online Learning, College of Liberal and Professional Studies, University of Pennsylvania Lecturer, College of Liberal and Professional Studies, University of Pennsylvania Senior Associate Faculty, Department of Sociology, Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis http://www.linkedin.com/in/merylkrieger http://upenn.academia.edu/merylkrieger On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 8:16 AM Fred Fuchs via Air-L < air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
In addition to questions of job security for stenos and others, failure to disclose or get opt-in to use others' intellectual property and speech for AI training will likely lead to class action lawsuits in the US.
Fred
---
On 8/8/2023 4:55 PM, Joly MacFie wrote:
Even "mere" voice-to-text training has a side-effect. Human stenos refusing to caption into Zoom.
https://twitter.com/whitecoatcapxg/status/1688571524528107520
On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 3:22 PM Fred Fuchs via Air-L <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> wrote:
I'd like to believe Zoom merely plans to improve its voice-to-text service with this AI training.
-- -------------------------------------- Joly MacFie +12185659365 -------------------------------------- -
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participants (11)
-
Charles Eppley -
Colin Delany -
Fred Fuchs -
Joly MacFie -
Joseph Reagle -
Mark Ackerman -
Meryl Krieger -
Nadia Tjahja -
Richard Forno -
Robert W Gehl -
Sarah Ann Oates