Bram, Interesting idea, but how do we solve the free rider problem? Despite some assertions on this list to the contrary, it takes Work to put papers online or on a CD. And in a dozen ways, it is a PITA: different formats, authors want to do edits, etc. Even if everyone is well-behaved, it is still Work, and even if it is done by volunteers, it still costs money to do. Someone has to do it, and someone has to pay for it. I have been astonished at the contentions of some list posters that they have a Right to these papers even though they haven't paid their club membership -- joining AoIR. AoIR's dues are now extremely low compared to other professional societies, and even lower for students and those in non-OECD countries. As Steve Jones noted at the recent Maastricht general meeting, just to keep the existing level of activity going, they may have to be raised. To add on to the Work and the expense without contributing dues to the clube -- $25 for students -- seems to be unwarrented, and indeed a bit like asking to get something for nothing. That's my .02, Barry ___________________________________________________________________ Barry Wellman Professor of Sociology NetLab Director wellman@chass.utoronto.ca http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman Centre for Urban & Community Studies University of Toronto 455 Spadina Avenue Toronto Canada M5S 2G8 fax:+1-416-978-7162 ___________________________________________________________________ On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 air-l-request@aoir.org wrote:
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2002 12:01:02 -0500 (EST) From: air-l-request@aoir.org Reply-To: air-l@aoir.org To: air-l@aoir.org Subject: Air-l digest, Vol 1 #537 - 1 msg
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Conference papers online (Bram Dov Abramson)
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Message: 1 Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:34:39 -0500 To: air-l@aoir.org From: Bram Dov Abramson <bda@bazu.org> Subject: [Air-l] Re: Conference papers online Reply-To: air-l@aoir.org
zaphiri@soi.city.ac.uk:
I understand that it might not be possible to put this years' proceedings online for free (for whatever copyright etc complications).. but i think it is an issue to consider and make mandotary in the future ?
jhuns@vt.edu:
but free and open distribution must be the decision of the individual not an obligation put on them because they participate in an organization or attend a conference.
I don't think this is an overly difficult problem to solve. For the AoIR Toronto conference, could the registration form include a checkbox? It could look something like this:
Following the conference, please make my paper available to:
_ any visitor to the conference Web site
_ any registered AoIR member visiting the conference Web site
_ noone
cheers Bram
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I'm in complete support of Barry's thinking. That said, perhaps the easiest solution would be something that AoIR could take up itself, in the form of an AoIR paper repository where members could put up papers, related to a conference or otherwise. If it is done by the author, then there's less work over-all, after a script has been set up to organize them. Then anyone who is an AoIR member could upload a paper or link to one, along with pertinent info and abstract, so that they were searchable from inside AoIR. Has anyone seen a script like this? I could envision one and could probably get my students to whip one up. Provided I could grab some funding from some courseware development fund somewhere. And have it up for when we're hosting the conference next fall. If there's interest from the powers that be. -- ------ Jason Nolan, PhD Scholar in Residence Knowledge Media Design Institute Room7224 Bahen Centre for Information Technology 40 St. George St. University of Toronto Toronto, ON M5S 2E4 Canada --- mailto:jason.nolan@utoronto.ca phone:416-946-8513 http://achieve.utoronto.ca/jason/ *** Note New Address ***
Jason et al - what about using an extant repository for something like this? There are many metadata schemas that are applicable here, and John Willinsky's Public Knowledge Project at UBC already has this infrastructure in place. There are others, too, such as e-prints, that work in similar ways. Robert JASON NOLAN wrote:
I'm in complete support of Barry's thinking. That said, perhaps the easiest solution would be something that AoIR could take up itself, in the form of an AoIR paper repository where members could put up papers, related to a conference or otherwise. If it is done by the author, then there's less work over-all, after a script has been set up to organize them. Then anyone who is an AoIR member could upload a paper or link to one, along with pertinent info and abstract, so that they were searchable from inside AoIR.
Has anyone seen a script like this? I could envision one and could probably get my students to whip one up. Provided I could grab some funding from some courseware development fund somewhere. And have it up for when we're hosting the conference next fall.
If there's interest from the powers that be.
-- ------ Jason Nolan, PhD Scholar in Residence Knowledge Media Design Institute Room7224 Bahen Centre for Information Technology 40 St. George St. University of Toronto Toronto, ON M5S 2E4 Canada --- mailto:jason.nolan@utoronto.ca phone:416-946-8513 http://achieve.utoronto.ca/jason/
*** Note New Address ***
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the possibly of public repositories for aoir eprints has been discussed and there is an eprints server that could do this. There are significant questions that need to be answered before any group other than aoir does anything with the conference papers. If individuals want to post them to a public eprints archive, that is fine. I can provide that service to individuals through the CDDC eprint server, which is available now for public use at http://eprints.cddc.vt.edu and works just fine. I'll talk with exec eventually about perhaps creating a special aoir category, but right now you could use the public area and identify your material as conference related etc and be just fine. However, the relation between an eprints server and the person is an individual relationship, not a group one, which is a key point for me. Feel free to play with the cddc eprints server and see what its about. It still is in public beta, it will have one upgrade and then it will be open to all comers, currently i have to approve all submitters, but that will be distributed too eventually. Robert Luke wrote:
-- Jeremy Hunsinger http://www.cddc.vt.edu/jeremy cddc/political science http://www.cddc.vt.edu 526 major williams hall 0130 http://www.dromocracy.com virginia tech -under construction blacksburg, va 24061 540-231-7614 jhuns@vt.edu this email was sent from my office --- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html mail /\ - against microsoft attachments
Barry, again, I completely agree. It's odd to be joining in a conversation that happened almost three weeks back. Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Wellman" <wellman@chass.utoronto.ca> To: <air-l@aoir.org> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 5:37 PM Subject: [Air-l] Re: Air-l digest, Vol 1 #537 - 1 msg
Bram, Interesting idea, but how do we solve the free rider problem?
Despite some assertions on this list to the contrary, it takes Work to put papers online or on a CD. And in a dozen ways, it is a PITA: different formats, authors want to do edits, etc. Even if everyone is well-behaved, it is still Work, and even if it is done by volunteers, it still costs money to do.
Someone has to do it, and someone has to pay for it.
I have been astonished at the contentions of some list posters that they have a Right to these papers even though they haven't paid their club membership -- joining AoIR.
AoIR's dues are now extremely low compared to other professional societies, and even lower for students and those in non-OECD countries. As Steve Jones noted at the recent Maastricht general meeting, just to keep the existing level of activity going, they may have to be raised. To add on to the Work and the expense without contributing dues to the clube -- $25 for students -- seems to be unwarrented, and indeed a bit like asking to get something for nothing.
That's my .02, Barry
participants (5)
-
Barry Wellman -
Ben Davidson -
JASON NOLAN -
jeremy hunsinger -
Robert Luke