Re: [Air-L] virtual ethnography
Hi, I just thought I'd add the following. Firstly, I'm not sure Miller & Slatter perform any kind of 'virtual ethnography' in the strict sense in 'The Internet: An Ethnographic Approach' and generally I think it's massively dated. The key text from the 90s would be Hine's Virtual Ethnography and Hakken's Cyborgs@Cyberspace. I consider Hine's to be way ahead of its time in terms of the other books that were emerging at the time and actually still pretty current. My problem with Virtual Ethnography is that it commits the cardinal sin of bad ethnography; It takes a preconceived notion and attempts to graft that method onto a new research site. Also, I believe the dichotomy of virtual and real is a false one. Furthermore, it retains the anthropological stance of the researcher, and 'the other'. It places the web firmly 'in there' (inside the box or across a 'network of networks') and I argue that it most definitely does not exist in there and that the term virtual is nothing more than a convenience. More recently Virtual Ethnography or Netnography or webnography, are performed primarily in the commercial arena, with Puri's Web of Insight as a sort of handbook (available here: http://lk.nielsen.com/documents/WebofInsightsPaperMay07.pdf) Further, if you consult recent articles that claim to perform virtual 'ethnography' generally they perform 'participant observation' without actually 'writing the culture' (the 'graphy' in ethnography). An example would be boyd's 'Why Youth (heart) Social Networking sites' ... an extended period of 'deep And for the most part virtual ethnography is just interviews and qualitative analysis. Which isn't ethnography. I think cyber anthropology is a better direction than virtual ethnography. Anyway, thats just my feed back, Good luck! Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:25:51 -0600 From: scott@scottmacleod.com Subject: Re: [Air-L] virtual ethnography To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org, mathias.fuchs@creativegames.org.uk Message-ID: <S362488AbZA2XZv/20090129232551Z+60567@ams10.chi.affinity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Here's a MIT OCW "Ethnography" course - http://tinyurl.com/dg32zg (also http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Science--Technology--and-Society/STS-360Ethnograph ySpring2003/Calendar/index.htm) - but not on virtual ethnography. In a related vein, I'm looking for a "Virtual Ethnography" syllabus from MIT, Cal, Stanford, Cambridge, Ivy League schools, the Sorbonne, University of Munich, University of Chicago, etc. Are there any syllabi out there that you know of on "Virtual Ethnography" vis-a-vis MIT's above? Scott scottmacleod.com
More recently Virtual Ethnography or Netnography or webnography, are performed primarily in the commercial arena, with Puri's Web of Insight as a sort of handbook (available here: http://lk.nielsen.com/documents/WebofInsightsPaperMay07.pdf)
sorry but i don't see how "webnography" as laid out by Puri has anything to do with ethnography; nor does it sit in the same arena as Hine's virtual ethnograhy. Puri's text sits in the realm of market research--the goal (to sell more product) comes before the observation. it's hardly social science. -robert
Hi, thank you all for precious advices Hine's book reporsts: “Given an accessible field site, an ethnographer could follow the progress of development of a web site and explore the interpretation of those involved as to the capacities of the technology and the identity being addressed. This analysis could be combined with an analysis of the content of the resulting website” (Hine ,2000, p51) I am very interested by the problem Scott just stressed but I don't see here any sin reported. Virtual refers to a target point where we can find webcontent ( a website) and if she speacks about networks of texts, the citation above puches me to interpret it as the meaning informants could made of it. (See the chapter where she discusses the controversy between "internet as a culture or cultural artefact", or more precisely p50 the subchapter "text, technology and reflexivity") Le 31 janv. 09 à 01:18, Pearse Stokes a écrit :
Hi,
I just thought I'd add the following.
Firstly, I'm not sure Miller & Slatter perform any kind of 'virtual ethnography' in the strict sense in 'The Internet: An Ethnographic Approach' and generally I think it's massively dated. The key text from the 90s would be Hine's Virtual Ethnography and Hakken's Cyborgs@Cyberspace. I consider Hine's to be way ahead of its time in terms of the other books that were emerging at the time and actually still pretty current.
My problem with Virtual Ethnography is that it commits the cardinal sin of bad ethnography; It takes a preconceived notion and attempts to graft that method onto a new research site. Also, I believe the dichotomy of virtual and real is a false one. Furthermore, it retains the anthropological stance of the researcher, and 'the other'. It places the web firmly 'in there' (inside the box or across a 'network of networks') and I argue that it most definitely does not exist in there and that the term virtual is nothing more than a convenience.
More recently Virtual Ethnography or Netnography or webnography, are performed primarily in the commercial arena, with Puri's Web of Insight as a sort of handbook (available here: http://lk.nielsen.com/documents/WebofInsightsPaperMay07.pdf)
Further, if you consult recent articles that claim to perform virtual 'ethnography' generally they perform 'participant observation' without actually 'writing the culture' (the 'graphy' in ethnography). An example would be boyd's 'Why Youth (heart) Social Networking sites' ... an extended period of 'deep And for the most part virtual ethnography is just interviews and qualitative analysis. Which isn't ethnography.
I think cyber anthropology is a better direction than virtual ethnography. Anyway, thats just my feed back,
Good luck!
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:25:51 -0600 From: scott@scottmacleod.com Subject: Re: [Air-L] virtual ethnography To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org, mathias.fuchs@creativegames.org.uk Message-ID: <S362488AbZA2XZv/20090129232551Z+60567@ams10.chi.affinity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"
Here's a MIT OCW "Ethnography" course - http://tinyurl.com/dg32zg (also http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Science--Technology--and-Society/STS-360Ethnograph ySpring2003/Calendar/index.htm) - but not on virtual ethnography.
In a related vein, I'm looking for a "Virtual Ethnography" syllabus from MIT, Cal, Stanford, Cambridge, Ivy League schools, the Sorbonne, University of Munich, University of Chicago, etc. Are there any syllabi out there that you know of on "Virtual Ethnography" vis-a-vis MIT's above? Scott scottmacleod.com
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Hi, did anyone look into fake play, foul, bending the rules in online games? Salen and Zimmerman did, any other ideas? Thanks for a hint. Mathias -- Mathias Fuchs Programme Leader MA Creative Technology and MSc Creative Games Salford University, School of Art & Design http://creativetechnology.salford.ac.uk/fuchs phone: +44 161 2956157 home: 4 Deeping Ave. Manchester, M16 8GB, UK http://creativegames.org.uk phone: +44 161 8815020
Hi Mathias, you might wanna look into T.L. Taylor's "play between worlds" or Mia Consalvo "Cheating" - both are excellent accounts of how players bend rules or "work around the system" for in-game or beyond game purposes. in regards to "bending the game" for achievement beyond game play see also: Thomas Malaby's games and culture journal article "parlaying value: capital in and beyond virtual worlds." hope that helps, Silvia
Hi, did anyone look into fake play, foul, bending the rules in online games? Salen and Zimmerman did, any other ideas?
Thanks for a hint. Mathias --
Mathias Fuchs Programme Leader MA Creative Technology and MSc Creative Games Salford University, School of Art & Design
http://creativetechnology.salford.ac.uk/fuchs phone: +44 161 2956157
home: 4 Deeping Ave. Manchester, M16 8GB, UK http://creativegames.org.uk phone: +44 161 8815020 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http:// listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
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Silvia Lindtner Ph.D. Student University of California, Irvine Department of Informatics http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lindtner
Also check out Torill Mortensen's article "Humans Playing World of Warcraft: or Deviant Strategies?" in Digital Culture, Play, and Identity: A World of Warcraft Reader, MIT Press 2008 (edited by Hilde G. Corneliussen and myself) Jill
you might wanna look into T.L. Taylor's "play between worlds" or Mia Consalvo "Cheating" - both are excellent accounts of how players bend rules or "work around the system" for in-game or beyond game purposes. in regards to "bending the game" for achievement beyond game play see also: Thomas Malaby's games and culture journal article "parlaying value: capital in and beyond virtual worlds."
hope that helps, Silvia
Hi, did anyone look into fake play, foul, bending the rules in online games? Salen and Zimmerman did, any other ideas?
Thanks for a hint. Mathias --
Mathias Fuchs Programme Leader MA Creative Technology and MSc Creative Games Salford University, School of Art & Design
http://creativetechnology.salford.ac.uk/fuchs phone: +44 161 2956157
home: 4 Deeping Ave. Manchester, M16 8GB, UK http://creativegames.org.uk phone: +44 161 8815020 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http:// aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http:// listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Silvia Lindtner Ph.D. Student University of California, Irvine Department of Informatics http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lindtner
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This was also in my inbox, thought it might be of interest. Jill Walker Rettberg wrote:
Also check out Torill Mortensen's article "Humans Playing World of Warcraft: or Deviant Strategies?" in Digital Culture, Play, and Identity: A World of Warcraft Reader, MIT Press 2008 (edited by Hilde G. Corneliussen and myself)
Jill
you might wanna look into T.L. Taylor's "play between worlds" or Mia Consalvo "Cheating" - both are excellent accounts of how players bend rules or "work around the system" for in-game or beyond game purposes. in regards to "bending the game" for achievement beyond game play see also: Thomas Malaby's games and culture journal article "parlaying value: capital in and beyond virtual worlds."
hope that helps, Silvia
Hi, did anyone look into fake play, foul, bending the rules in online games? Salen and Zimmerman did, any other ideas?
Thanks for a hint. Mathias --
Mathias Fuchs Programme Leader MA Creative Technology and MSc Creative Games Salford University, School of Art & Design
http://creativetechnology.salford.ac.uk/fuchs phone: +44 161 2956157
home: 4 Deeping Ave. Manchester, M16 8GB, UK http://creativegames.org.uk phone: +44 161 8815020 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Silvia Lindtner Ph.D. Student University of California, Irvine Department of Informatics http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lindtner
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Ooops, once again can't tell the reply from the forward button, sorry! pmgazz wrote:
This was also in my inbox, thought it might be of interest.
Jill Walker Rettberg wrote:
Also check out Torill Mortensen's article "Humans Playing World of Warcraft: or Deviant Strategies?" in Digital Culture, Play, and Identity: A World of Warcraft Reader, MIT Press 2008 (edited by Hilde G. Corneliussen and myself)
Jill
you might wanna look into T.L. Taylor's "play between worlds" or Mia Consalvo "Cheating" - both are excellent accounts of how players bend rules or "work around the system" for in-game or beyond game purposes. in regards to "bending the game" for achievement beyond game play see also: Thomas Malaby's games and culture journal article "parlaying value: capital in and beyond virtual worlds."
hope that helps, Silvia
Hi, did anyone look into fake play, foul, bending the rules in online games? Salen and Zimmerman did, any other ideas?
Thanks for a hint. Mathias --
Mathias Fuchs Programme Leader MA Creative Technology and MSc Creative Games Salford University, School of Art & Design
http://creativetechnology.salford.ac.uk/fuchs phone: +44 161 2956157
home: 4 Deeping Ave. Manchester, M16 8GB, UK http://creativegames.org.uk phone: +44 161 8815020 _______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
Silvia Lindtner Ph.D. Student University of California, Irvine Department of Informatics http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lindtner
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CFP Panel on Language, Play and Performance at AoIR 10.0 - In Memory of Professor Brenda Danet This is a call for participation in a panel organized in honor of the Late Professor Brenda Danet. Professor Danet was a leading scholar and pioneer in the field of CMC and a key member of AoIR. In her honor we propose to organize a panel focusing on LANGUAGE, PLAY AND PERFORMANCE. Through this panel, we would like to deepen our understanding of Play and Performance over the Internet by exploring various expressions. Nowadays, people play with typography and orthography, with their identities (nicknames, role-playing), with language, and with cultural content, from real-world experience to fantasy, folklore, the comics, and films. Aspects of "performance" traditionally associated with genres of face-to-face communication such as storytelling, joke-telling, verbal dueling, etc., are flourishing on the Net in its vast social spaces such as on social network services (e.g. Facebook, Myspace), video postings (e.g. You Tube), forums, chat rooms, communications between multi-user gamers and others. If you are interested in participating in such a panel at the upcoming AoIR in October 2009, please contact Dr. Oren Golan. Email: msogolan@mscc.huji.ac.il
??? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????. ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? AoIR ??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oren Golan" <msogolan@mscc.huji.ac.il> To: <air-l@listserv.aoir.org> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: [Air-L] CFP Panel on Language, Play and Performance at AoIR 10.0 - In Memory of Professor Brenda Danet
CFP Panel on Language, Play and Performance at AoIR 10.0 - In Memory of Professor Brenda Danet
This is a call for participation in a panel organized in honor of the Late Professor Brenda Danet. Professor Danet was a leading scholar and pioneer in the field of CMC and a key member of AoIR. In her honor we propose to organize a panel focusing on LANGUAGE, PLAY AND PERFORMANCE.
Through this panel, we would like to deepen our understanding of Play and Performance over the Internet by exploring various expressions. Nowadays, people play with typography and orthography, with their identities (nicknames, role-playing), with language, and with cultural content, from real-world experience to fantasy, folklore, the comics, and films. Aspects of "performance" traditionally associated with genres of face-to-face communication such as storytelling, joke-telling, verbal dueling, etc., are flourishing on the Net in its vast social spaces such as on social network services (e.g. Facebook, Myspace), video postings (e.g. You Tube), forums, chat rooms, communications between multi-user gamers and others.
If you are interested in participating in such a panel at the upcoming AoIR in October 2009, please contact Dr. Oren Golan. Email: msogolan@mscc.huji.ac.il
_______________________________________________ The Air-L@listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org
Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/
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Dear Laetitia, You might also be interested in looking into the material produced and discussed at 'In the Game: ethnographic relationships, mediation and knowledge', an AoIR pre-conference workshop held last October. The researchers attending all use ethnographic methods in their work, and their work represents a range of approaches to the study of mediated settings. This workshop was documented by Hanna Wirman, and the workshop blog can be found here: http://inthegameworkshop.blogspot.com/ best regards, Anne -- Dr Anne Beaulieu Senior Research Fellow and Deputy Programme Leader The Virtual Knowledge Studio for the Humanities and Social Sciences (VKS-KNAW) T +31 20 850-0277 F +31 20 850-0271 Cruquiusweg 31 1019 AT Amsterdam The Netherlands anne.beaulieu@vks.knaw.nl http://www.virtualknowledgestudio.nl ________________________________ From: air-l-bounces@listserv.aoir.org on behalf of laetitia le chatton Sent: Sat 1/31/2009 10:52 To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-L] virtual ethnography Hi, thank you all for precious advices Hine's book reporsts: "Given an accessible field site, an ethnographer could follow the progress of development of a web site and explore the interpretation of those involved as to the capacities of the technology and the identity being addressed. This analysis could be combined with an analysis of the content of the resulting website" (Hine ,2000, p51) I am very interested by the problem Scott just stressed but I don't see here any sin reported. Virtual refers to a target point where we can find webcontent ( a website) and if she speacks about networks of texts, the citation above puches me to interpret it as the meaning informants could made of it. (See the chapter where she discusses the controversy between "internet as a culture or cultural artefact", or more precisely p50 the subchapter "text, technology and reflexivity") Le 31 janv. 09 à 01:18, Pearse Stokes a écrit :
Hi,
I just thought I'd add the following.
Firstly, I'm not sure Miller & Slatter perform any kind of 'virtual ethnography' in the strict sense in 'The Internet: An Ethnographic Approach' and generally I think it's massively dated. The key text from the 90s would be Hine's Virtual Ethnography and Hakken's Cyborgs@Cyberspace. I consider Hine's to be way ahead of its time in terms of the other books that were emerging at the time and actually still pretty current.
My problem with Virtual Ethnography is that it commits the cardinal sin of bad ethnography; It takes a preconceived notion and attempts to graft that method onto a new research site. Also, I believe the dichotomy of virtual and real is a false one. Furthermore, it retains the anthropological stance of the researcher, and 'the other'. It places the web firmly 'in there' (inside the box or across a 'network of networks') and I argue that it most definitely does not exist in there and that the term virtual is nothing more than a convenience.
More recently Virtual Ethnography or Netnography or webnography, are performed primarily in the commercial arena, with Puri's Web of Insight as a sort of handbook (available here: http://lk.nielsen.com/documents/WebofInsightsPaperMay07.pdf)
Further, if you consult recent articles that claim to perform virtual 'ethnography' generally they perform 'participant observation' without actually 'writing the culture' (the 'graphy' in ethnography). An example would be boyd's 'Why Youth (heart) Social Networking sites' ... an extended period of 'deep And for the most part virtual ethnography is just interviews and qualitative analysis. Which isn't ethnography.
I think cyber anthropology is a better direction than virtual ethnography. Anyway, thats just my feed back,
Good luck!
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 17:25:51 -0600 From: scott@scottmacleod.com Subject: Re: [Air-L] virtual ethnography To: air-l@listserv.aoir.org, mathias.fuchs@creativegames.org.uk Message-ID: <S362488AbZA2XZv/20090129232551Z+60567@ams10.chi.affinity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"
Here's a MIT OCW "Ethnography" course - http://tinyurl.com/dg32zg (also http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Science--Technology--and-Society/STS-360Ethnograph ySpring2003/Calendar/index.htm) - but not on virtual ethnography.
In a related vein, I'm looking for a "Virtual Ethnography" syllabus from MIT, Cal, Stanford, Cambridge, Ivy League schools, the Sorbonne, University of Munich, University of Chicago, etc. Are there any syllabi out there that you know of on "Virtual Ethnography" vis-a-vis MIT's above? Scott scottmacleod.com
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Selon Pearse Stokes <pearsestokes@gmail.com>:
Further, if you consult recent articles that claim to perform virtual 'ethnography' generally they perform 'participant observation' without actually 'writing the culture' (the 'graphy' in ethnography). An example would be boyd's 'Why Youth (heart) Social Networking sites' ... an extended period of 'deep And for the most part virtual ethnography is just interviews and qualitative analysis. Which isn't ethnography.
About the "graphy" part of "virtual ethnography", i can't agree with your statement of impossibility. But i agree about the issue, and above all if you mean it literally, if by "graphy" you mean "visual". I see it as an open question today, a state of art, and our responsability to go further. For exemple, more than the quantitative / qualitative debate or articulation, it seems to me more fruitful to think about the role of museography when qualitative methods where created, and about the extended use by "ancient" anthroplogists of maps, plans, and other sketchs and drawings, as they were too in the "travel diary" tradition. For exemple, to achieve a better description of the ties in the Internet network - writing is very poor to account for their complexity; i found usefull to use some tools to map them. These maps were built to complement descriptions. It's a necessity, because, even when you describe precisely how participants find their way, without a map it's not clear for the reader how such "short views" (participants views are "shorts", they are "for practical matters") could build together a "shared space" or "social webspace". My point is, i really believe in virtual ethnography, because social sciences really need these accounts about the ways people not only "act" but find their ways out there. (Actually, i can send my recently publish paper about that very question, but in French. English conterparts are not ready yet.) Regards, Manuel Boutet Centre Maurice Halbwachs (CMH) http://www.cmh.ens.fr/ http://manuel.boutet.free.fr
The '-graphy' part of the word 'ethnography' refers, as Pearse has said, to writing (about culture, the 'ethno' bit), not to visual artefacts - although these can be part of an ethnography, of course. I'm finding this discussion really interesting. M-H On 1/02/09 9:51 AM, "manuel.boutet@free.fr" <manuel.boutet@free.fr> wrote:
About the "graphy" part of "virtual ethnography", i can't agree with your statement of impossibility. But i agree about the issue, and above all if you mean it literally, if by "graphy" you mean "visual". I see it as an open question today, a state of art, and our responsability to go further.
participants (12)
-
Anne Beaulieu -
Jacob Hecht -
Jill Walker Rettberg -
laetitia le chatton -
manuel.boutet＠free.fr -
Mary-Helen Ward -
Mathias Fuchs -
nativebuddha -
Oren Golan -
Pearse Stokes -
pmgazz -
Silvia Lindtner