- Air-L - lists.aoir.org

AOIR on AUT?
by Ellis Godard 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

This seems like an appropriate topic on which AOIR, as international and interdisciplinary as well as academic and open minded, should take a stand. What are the appropriate steps/procedure(s) thru which that could/would/should happen? http://ellisgodard.blogspot.com/2005/05/aut-is-out-of-line.html -eg

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RE: [Air-l] life cycle of online discussions: references? (was: SW tostore webpages)
by Rowin Young 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

If anyone does know this reference (or other similar ones) please could they post replies on list, or copy me into them if you'd rather reply offlist - I'd be fascinated to see them. Thanks, Rowin > -----Original Message----- > From: air-l-aoir.org-bounces(a)listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-aoir.org- > bounces(a)listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of M.B.Gaved > Sent: 06 June 2005 11:07 > To: air-l > Subject: [Air-l] life cycle of online discussions: references? (was: SW > tostore webpages) > > hi all > > I'm wondering if anybody can help me with a reference, this current > discussion has got me thinking about the 'lifecycle' that mailing list > debates generally seem to go through. > > After a particularly fiery college mailing list debate, a colleague > mentioned he'd come across a paper somebody had written on the lifecycle > of mailing list discussions - it might have been specifically flamewars, > or perhaps just mailing list debates in general. It might have come from > IBM research labs? > > Can anybody point me at this or any other papers on the subject? > > all the best > > Mark > > -------------------------------------------- > Mark Gaved > KMi, Open University, Milton Keynes MK7 6AA > +44 (0) 1908 6 54513 > m.b.gaved(a)open.ac.uk > http://kmi.open.ac.uk/people/mark/ > -------------------------------------------- > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: air-l-aoir.org-bounces(a)listserv.aoir.org > [mailto:air-l-aoir.org-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Thomas > Koenig > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 4:34 AM > To: air-l(a)listserv.aoir.org > Subject: Re: [Air-l] SW to store webpages > > > Jeremy Hunsinger wrote: > > > you might doubt it, but it is a fact of the interface and its > > limitations. you could disagree there, but then you would be sorely > > pressed when faced with the full powers of the unix command-line. > > 1) Are you aware that HTTrack also offers a command line interface for > Unix? > 2) I am a social scientist, as I (maybe wrongly) thought were most of > the people on this list. I am familiar with UNIX, which already seems to > > be kind of a rarity among social scientists. Most of us aren't and, I > might add, shouldn't. For most purposes WebCopier seems an entirely > sufficient tool. Why shouldn't it? Give me examples, where its > limitations pose a problem. > > > which is also one of the reasons a unix user can do more with wget > > than httrack can do, but there is plenty of evidence in that arena > > already. > > > If there is, why don't you refer to that evidence? I gave already > several sources, including the article by Kellogg, which concludes: > > "With little coding, HTTrack can be extended to meet immediate mirroring > > needs." > > > as for the explanation marks, it was turning very clearly into a troll > > > war. > > Now, who's the other troll besides myself? I really don't appreciate > this "dissent" equals "trolling" allegations. And I do think that the > metaphor of a troll has become overused in CMC. > > > little escalations such as the exclamation mark will be interpreted in > > > many ways, and i don't know your intent, but I do know that at least > > one person saw it as a slight. > > Well: If an exclamation mark is considered to be "an escalation", what's > > next? Banning of question marks? > > An exclamation mark might be ambiguous, although, I think, I clarified > now at length what I wanted to say. In contrast: > > "kindly leave your exclamation marks at home." > > is much less ambiguous in my view. It is clearly an imperative, which I > happen to disagree with. > > > let's not go there. > > Why not? Obviously, there is disagreement on this list about it, so the > only way to solve this disagreement seems to me to voice one's opinions. > > I, for one, think, that the approach to try not to offend anyone no > matter what, is a bad one, because it stifles discussions. That does not > > mean that one should not try to be courteous, one clearly should, but > academic deliberations live from dissent, which is bound to offend > those, whose primary goal is harmony. I personally am not willing to > phrase my postings in a way, so that I make sure that nobody gets > offended. I try to follow the rules offered by Joshua Cohen: > > > 1. Deliberations take place in an argumentative fashion, through the > > ordered exchange of reasons > > and information among counterparts that make proposals and submitt > > them to criticism. > > 2. Deliberations are inclusive and public, and all the potentially > > affected by their decisions must > > have equal oppportunities to paticipate and to decide in them. > > 3. Deliberations are free of inner coercions able to undermine the > > equal position of participants, and > > everyone must have the opportunity to be heard, to introduce new > > issues, to make proposals and to criticize > > them. The coercion without coercions of the best argument is the only > > rule for accepting or refusing an > > argument. > > 4. Deliberations are generally oriented to reach a rationally grounded > > > agreement, and can in > > principle be continued or resumed in any given moment, yet the need > > for decision demands them to have an > > agreed final point. > > 5. Political deliberations reaches all those issues that can be > > regulated on behalf of the public > > interest, but that is not to say that issues traditionally judged as > > 'private' must forcefuly remain out of > > discussion. > > 6. Political deliberations are also extended to the interpretation of > > needs and to changes in prepolitical > > attitudes and preferences. > > (Cohen, Joshua (1996), "Procedure and Substance in Deliberative > Democracy", in S. Benhabib (ed.), Democracy and > Difference. Contesting the Boundaries of the Political, Princeton: > Princeton University Press, pp. 95-119.) Habermas, in "Between Facts and > > Norms" (Faktizitaet und Geltung), quotes BTW the same rules. > > These rules were initially intended for political decision making, but > also seem appropriate for academic deliberations.. I don't see, that I > violated any of theses rules. > > Frankly, I even guess you and I would agree on most of these points and > on many other points. So, it's even more interesting to see, where we > disagree. > > Thomas, preffering Unix over Windows, but acknowledging that the latter > is the the OS of this decade. > > (BTW: I also switched from HighCom to Dolby for the same reasons) > > -- > thomas koenig, ph.d. > http://www.lboro.ac.uk/research/mmethods/staff/thomas/ > > _______________________________________________ > The Air-l-aoir.org(a)listserv.aoir.org mailing list > is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org > Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: > http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org > > Join the Association of Internet Researchers: > http://www.aoir.org/ > _______________________________________________ > The Air-l-aoir.org(a)listserv.aoir.org mailing list > is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org > Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: > http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org > > Join the Association of Internet Researchers: > http://www.aoir.org/

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Webstreams from ICT&Creativity Conference in Vienna now online!
by Laurent Straskraba 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

Dear all, I'd like to inform you that the webstreams from the WSIS Contributing Conference on ICT&Creativity, held in Vienna from 2-3 June 2005, are now online. Thanks to the organizers of the conference and Telekom Austria as the technical facilitator, people from around the world can watch what was being discussed at this important conference which can be described as "Linking the individual in the center of sustainable development with the potential benefits of ICT". To me, this approach is the basic layer of a sustainable future: it's about empowerment and capacity building where social development is a precondition to economic development and not so much the other way round. Please find the program of the conference at www.wsa-conference.org and the streams here: http://multimedia.telekom.at/portal/programmA.asp?id=246 Best regards, Laurent Straskraba --- Mag. Laurent Straskraba Information Society Researcher Board member of IT Business & Research in Europe http://www.itbeurope.org Information Society Representative United Nations Youth & Student Association of Austria http://www.afa.at post: Ontlstrasse 3, A - 4040 Linz, Austria / Europe mobile: +43.650.7711861 (GMT +1) e-mail: laurent(a)straskraba.net web: http://www.straskraba.net ---

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SW to store webpages
by Niels Brügger 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

Hi aoirs FYI - about software for archiving websites: In February this year I published a small book entitled 'Archiving Websites. General Considerations and Strategies' and in connection with the publication of the book a website has been established where it is possible to find the conclusions of the test, the detailed test results, recommendations for using the individual programmes, a detailed description of the test, and links to resources on net archiving. The website address is http://cfi.imv.au.dk/eng/pub/webarc. The book is free of charge, and as long as in print, copies of the book may be obtained by contacting cfi(a)imv.au.dk. Please specify complete address. An electronic version of the book can be obtained on http://cfi.imv.au.dk/eng/pub (for the purpose of citation please note that the printed and electronic versions are identical). The cover text reads; "This book treats the micro archiving of websites, i.e. archiving by researchers, students or others without special technical knowledge who, using a standard computer, wish to save a website for further study. The phenomenon is discussed from the standpoint that Internet research must be able to stabilise and save the object of its analysis. However, the Internet is endowed with certain fundamental media-specific dynamics that make stabilisation difficult. Based on an account and discussion of these dynamics (linked as they are to sender, text and recipient) the following double conclusion is reached. Firstly, unlike other well-known media, the Internet does not simply exist in a form suited to being archived, but rather is first formed as an object of study in the archiving, and it is formed differently depending on who does the archiving, when, and for what purpose. Secondly, this means that there is an element of subjective creation in the archived material, so that methodical deliberations are necessary — in other words, the answers to why and how the archived material has been created. These conclusions form the starting point for the last section of the book, which, based on comprehensive tests of archiving software, discusses in depth the elements that can be included in an archiving strategy.

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Re: [Air-l] SW to store webpages
by GTa3411203＠aol.com 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

I have been following this discussion and have not yet seen anyone raise a question relating to the legality of using this approach to capture web pages in support of academic research, in particular those web pages that are clearly identified as being copyrighted. Are you contacting the owner of the site to ask permission to create a copy of their documents for current and future use? If not, how are you justifying using this approach to duplicating the data? Fair use laws? How are you using the data after it has been captured? Are you extracting data to support point in time studies? Longitudinal studies? I have been on both sides of the house and have concerns both as the producer of electronic documents as well as user. I am also currently conducting an Internet-based study of organization practices that are being reported on web sites. My approach to doing research is quite the opposite. I am collecting data real-time by accessing individual web sites (200-plus) and assessing the available data on a given date in support of a point in time study. I am also using this as an opportunity to advance research practices in a manner that call attention to the dynamic nature of Internet web sites and some of the inherrent issues in taking this approach to collecting data in comparison to some of the more traditional methods that might be used when working with paper documents. I am interested in getting feedback on using this approach to doing research. Gail Taylor Human Resource Education Ph.D. Student University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign

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life cycle of online discussions: references? (was: SW to store webpages)
by M.B.Gaved 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

hi all I'm wondering if anybody can help me with a reference, this current discussion has got me thinking about the 'lifecycle' that mailing list debates generally seem to go through. After a particularly fiery college mailing list debate, a colleague mentioned he'd come across a paper somebody had written on the lifecycle of mailing list discussions - it might have been specifically flamewars, or perhaps just mailing list debates in general. It might have come from IBM research labs? Can anybody point me at this or any other papers on the subject? all the best Mark -------------------------------------------- Mark Gaved KMi, Open University, Milton Keynes MK7 6AA +44 (0) 1908 6 54513 m.b.gaved(a)open.ac.uk http://kmi.open.ac.uk/people/mark/ -------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: air-l-aoir.org-bounces(a)listserv.aoir.org [mailto:air-l-aoir.org-bounces@listserv.aoir.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Koenig Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 4:34 AM To: air-l(a)listserv.aoir.org Subject: Re: [Air-l] SW to store webpages Jeremy Hunsinger wrote: > you might doubt it, but it is a fact of the interface and its > limitations. you could disagree there, but then you would be sorely > pressed when faced with the full powers of the unix command-line. 1) Are you aware that HTTrack also offers a command line interface for Unix? 2) I am a social scientist, as I (maybe wrongly) thought were most of the people on this list. I am familiar with UNIX, which already seems to be kind of a rarity among social scientists. Most of us aren't and, I might add, shouldn't. For most purposes WebCopier seems an entirely sufficient tool. Why shouldn't it? Give me examples, where its limitations pose a problem. > which is also one of the reasons a unix user can do more with wget > than httrack can do, but there is plenty of evidence in that arena > already. If there is, why don't you refer to that evidence? I gave already several sources, including the article by Kellogg, which concludes: "With little coding, HTTrack can be extended to meet immediate mirroring needs." > as for the explanation marks, it was turning very clearly into a troll > war. Now, who's the other troll besides myself? I really don't appreciate this "dissent" equals "trolling" allegations. And I do think that the metaphor of a troll has become overused in CMC. > little escalations such as the exclamation mark will be interpreted in > many ways, and i don't know your intent, but I do know that at least > one person saw it as a slight. Well: If an exclamation mark is considered to be "an escalation", what's next? Banning of question marks? An exclamation mark might be ambiguous, although, I think, I clarified now at length what I wanted to say. In contrast: "kindly leave your exclamation marks at home." is much less ambiguous in my view. It is clearly an imperative, which I happen to disagree with. > let's not go there. Why not? Obviously, there is disagreement on this list about it, so the only way to solve this disagreement seems to me to voice one's opinions. I, for one, think, that the approach to try not to offend anyone no matter what, is a bad one, because it stifles discussions. That does not mean that one should not try to be courteous, one clearly should, but academic deliberations live from dissent, which is bound to offend those, whose primary goal is harmony. I personally am not willing to phrase my postings in a way, so that I make sure that nobody gets offended. I try to follow the rules offered by Joshua Cohen: > 1. Deliberations take place in an argumentative fashion, through the > ordered exchange of reasons > and information among counterparts that make proposals and submitt > them to criticism. > 2. Deliberations are inclusive and public, and all the potentially > affected by their decisions must > have equal oppportunities to paticipate and to decide in them. > 3. Deliberations are free of inner coercions able to undermine the > equal position of participants, and > everyone must have the opportunity to be heard, to introduce new > issues, to make proposals and to criticize > them. The coercion without coercions of the best argument is the only > rule for accepting or refusing an > argument. > 4. Deliberations are generally oriented to reach a rationally grounded > agreement, and can in > principle be continued or resumed in any given moment, yet the need > for decision demands them to have an > agreed final point. > 5. Political deliberations reaches all those issues that can be > regulated on behalf of the public > interest, but that is not to say that issues traditionally judged as > 'private' must forcefuly remain out of > discussion. > 6. Political deliberations are also extended to the interpretation of > needs and to changes in prepolitical > attitudes and preferences. (Cohen, Joshua (1996), "Procedure and Substance in Deliberative Democracy", in S. Benhabib (ed.), Democracy and Difference. Contesting the Boundaries of the Political, Princeton: Princeton University Press, pp. 95-119.) Habermas, in "Between Facts and Norms" (Faktizitaet und Geltung), quotes BTW the same rules. These rules were initially intended for political decision making, but also seem appropriate for academic deliberations.. I don't see, that I violated any of theses rules. Frankly, I even guess you and I would agree on most of these points and on many other points. So, it's even more interesting to see, where we disagree. Thomas, preffering Unix over Windows, but acknowledging that the latter is the the OS of this decade. (BTW: I also switched from HighCom to Dolby for the same reasons) -- thomas koenig, ph.d. http://www.lboro.ac.uk/research/mmethods/staff/thomas/ _______________________________________________ The Air-l-aoir.org(a)listserv.aoir.org mailing list is provided by the Association of Internet Researchers http://aoir.org Subscribe, change options or unsubscribe at: http://listserv.aoir.org/listinfo.cgi/air-l-aoir.org Join the Association of Internet Researchers: http://www.aoir.org/

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SW to store webpages
by Deanya Lattimore 06 Jun '05

06 Jun '05

Internet Explorer has an option called a waff file -- it allows you to archive a website as many links deep as you like, excluding links to other sites if you so desire, including pictures, movies, etc. In Internet Explorer, go to your File... Save as... and choose the Web Archive function. :-D. Deanya Lattimore, ABD Syracuse Writing Program http://www.deanya.com/ On Sunday, June 5, 2005, at 03:06 PM, air-l-aoir.org-request(a)listserv.aoir.org wrote: > Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 13:59:39 +0100 > From: <s.vicari(a)reading.ac.uk> > Subject: [Air-l] SW to store webpages > To: air-l(a)listserv.aoir.org > Message-ID: <E1Deuj5-0007Br-00@vimb3> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi, > > I am a PhD student at the University of Reading, Uk. I am running a > study on > 200 protest group websites. Would you suggest any good SW to store > whole > websites offline? > > Thanks a lot, at the moment I am a bit lost in links and buttons... > ste > > >> > Stefania Vicari > PhD student in Sociology > University of Reading > PO Box 218, > Reading, RG6 6AA, > United Kingdom.

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what is "the digital divide"?
by Barry Wellman 05 Jun '05

05 Jun '05

In view of all the interesting discussion about deconstructing "the digital divide" hereiin "What is the digital divide? It seems like specialized jargon to me." That is the question that a copy-editor asked a student of mine who had contributed a chapter to a book about the internet. I wuz flabbergasted. We pointed out that it was a widely used term, defined it, showed that there were > 3M entries for it on Google and > 11K on Google Scholar. Still waiting for the copyeditor's apology. Barry _____________________________________________________________________ Barry Wellman Professor of Sociology NetLab Director wellman at chass.utoronto.ca http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~wellman Centre for Urban & Community Studies University of Toronto 455 Spadina Avenue Toronto Canada M5S 2G8 fax:+1-416-978-7162 To network is to live; to live is to network _____________________________________________________________________

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Re: [Air-l] SW to store webpages
by Kaye Trammell 05 Jun '05

05 Jun '05

I've done a bit of downloading/archiving of entire Web sites before. I've used Webstripper & Webwhacker - both cost a small fee I think. Both products can do really well with smaller stand-alone sites (mostly what you're using it for) but I strongly discourage you to use these tools for larger sites (like media sites - even if you restrict it to 2 levels). I have found better luck when I switched to a Mac - DeepVacuum is great. One word of advice no matter which tool you use: back it up everyday & write it to CD ROM then get those files off your computer. During the EU elections I was pulling down content & keeping about a weeks worth of stuff before I backed it up & wrote it to CD (to save money & not have 10 CDs). Bad idea. My entire laptop harddrive died & I lost everything on my primary computer. Hard lesson. Good luck. Kaye ____________________________________ Kaye Trammell, Ph.D. Assistant Professor Manship School of Mass Communication 212 Hodges Hall Louisiana State University Baton Rouge, LA 70803-7202 trammell(a)lsu.edu Office 225/578-7380 Fax 225/578-2125

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Re: [Air-l] digital divide in use - more suggestions?
by GTa3411203＠aol.com 05 Jun '05

05 Jun '05

Will you also be taking into consideration what impact the influx of portable hand-held devices, such as PDAs and cellphones with Internet capabilities, might have on current understandings of the digital divide? The existing research tends to focus on what might be called proven technologies whereas mobile devices are emerging technologies. It is possible to speculate what impact these emerging technologies will have on current understandings by looking at recent studies from around the world that are reporting who is buying what device and how they are using them. Gail Taylor Human Resource Education Ph.D. Student University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign

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